a minivan like caravan ?

Martin (deal addict) wrote: ↑

Dec 21st, 2018 11:30 pm

Pacifica and Grand Caravan not only outsell Sienna and Odyssey in USA but both are increasing sales whereas the Honda and Sienna have declining year-on-year sales.

Grand Caravan outsells Sienna almost 2:1.

Grand Caravan is a more obvious value proposition than the Pacifica and for many looking for the practicality/versatility/accommodation on a tight budget it is a no brainer.

Funny that... Wonder why FCA is killing the caravan then...

I wonder what caused the severe drop of "fleet-friendly" Caravan sales in Canada:
Nov -64%
YTD -30%

News: Windsor Minivan plant to be idled in late 2018 early 2019.

kr0zet wrote: ↑

Dec 22nd, 2018 9:12 am

Funny that... Wonder why FCA is killing the caravan then...

They have given it a stay of execution numerous times. In the fall of 2017 sales had to stop in US because air bag upgrades needed to meet new US standards were not done because it was meant to be axed by then. However due to continuing strong sales demand a decision was made to invest in it and do the upgrades. So now the upgraded model can be sold in the US again. The retooling and hiatus in US sales led to a temporary drop in NA sales. Having invested in the safety upgrade they will get another couple of years out of it again. This vehicle has been on death row for years.

Both Pacifica and Caravan are fleet favourites. Majority of Caravan sales in US went to fleet operators. Funny the Caravan is even listed among rental vehicles to avoid.

We've compiled this list based on cars that we know are popular with rental fleets and don't do particularly well in our testing. Our testing looks at a variety of factors—not only how well a car drives, but also how comfortable it is, how much space there is for humans and their cargo, its fuel efficiency, and its safety. While it's true that there aren't any truly terrible cars on the road today, it's just as true that some are definitely better than others. We've picked some alternatives that should be easy to find and are definitely worth seeking out. [...]
There is no better rental car than a minivan. They do a far better job of delivering seven passengers and their luggage from point A to point B than anything short of business class in a Dreamliner. But if you're going to go for a van, walk right past Dodge's dated Grand Caravan for the Chrysler Pacifica. They'll both seat seven in decent comfort, but the Pacifica is basically an iPhone 7 compared to the Grand Caravan's Nextel push-to-talk walkie-talkie. We've moved on.

Ouch!!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.csmoni ... nt-instead

Bb0231 wrote: ↑

Dec 22nd, 2018 12:16 pm

Both Pacifica and Caravan are fleet favourites. Majority of Caravan sales in US went to fleet operators. Funny the Caravan is even listed among rental vehicles to avoid.

Ouch!!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.csmoni ... nt-instead

You say that as if you know the Pacifica is a fleet special...its not. US fleets do indeed carry Pacificas, but barely any of the Canadian fleets do. If you think you can go up to National and pick the Pacifica...you'll be there all year. Yes the Caravan is a fleet favourite, its heavily featured in rental, but also work related fleets and government. Only the Odyssey because its Honda, avoids fleets entirely. The Sienna and Sedona are also fleet favourites for their 8 seat configurations. Minivans as a segment relies a lot on fleets, without fleets I suspect the segment truly is dead.

JeganV wrote: ↑

Dec 22nd, 2018 12:49 pm

You say that as if you know the Pacifica is a fleet special...its not. US fleets do indeed carry Pacificas, but barely any of the Canadian fleets do. If you think you can go up to National and pick the Pacifica...you'll be there all year. Yes the Caravan is a fleet favourite, its heavily featured in rental, but also work related fleets and government. Only the Odyssey because its Honda, avoids fleets entirely. The Sienna and Sedona are also fleet favourites for their 8 seat configurations. Minivans as a segment relies a lot on fleets, without fleets I suspect the segment truly is dead.

I think at one time I saw many Caravans used by Bell and Roger's. Seems Bell has moved on the Ford Transit.
At one location in U.S. I can find 12 Pacifica and 8 Caravan ex-rental available for sale. Sedona? Are you kidding? Sienna? Nadda. (Sienna & Caravan are quite popular as can cabs where I live.) YMMV.

^^ How come Honda has no problem to find buyers for its Odyssey?

Bb0231 wrote: ↑

Dec 22nd, 2018 3:09 pm

I think at one time I saw many Caravans used by Bell and Roger's. Seems Bell has moved on the Ford Transit.

Bell vans come to my building regularly, they're all Caravans. Likely depends on what sort of installer to determine whether they use a Caravan or a Transit.

Bb0231 wrote: ↑

Dec 22nd, 2018 3:09 pm

At one location in U.S. I can find 12 Pacifica and 8 Caravan ex-rental available for sale. Sedona? Are you kidding? Sienna? Nadda. (Sienna & Caravan are quite popular as can where I live.) YMMV.

I bolded the important bit. Yes you can find ex-rental Pacific with US fleets as I noted earlier, it was only US units that I even had the chance to drive a Pacifica, as it certainly wasn't Canadian units. Canada however you're getting only Caravans primarily with some Siennas and Sedonas, I've yet to see a Pacifica fleet buy since they've been released. Contrast to Sienna where a few fleet buys have been made recently, Toyota being the one to initiate as rental technically prefers Caravans as they're forced to charge the same for Caravan or Sienna.

Bb0231 wrote: ↑

Dec 22nd, 2018 3:09 pm

^^ How come Honda has no problem to find buyers for its Odyssey?

You make it seem like all are unsuccessful in finding buyers if one turns to fleets, rather its a case where Honda simply refuses to do fleet business really. On the minivan side, only the Sedona suffers in securing retail buyers, the vast majority of the ones I've seen on road being rental units. Honda moves less Odysseys than Toyota does Siennas, most of the Siennas are retail units so if anything the Odyssey suffers a little bit in finding buyers relative to Caravan and Sienna. As for why Honda refuses to make almost any decent deals to fleet(this includes the US), this is only suspicion but its likely to do with them controlling resale value. Fleets dump vehicles into the used market and often can negatively impact resale if they simply dump too many for the market to handle. Having said that, even though Toyota and to a significantly lesser degree Subaru do fleet deals neither suffer resale issues.

Minivans as a segment relies a lot on fleets, without fleets I suspect the segment truly is dead.

Didn't you at one time declare that the minivan segment would die without fleet sale, as if few individual buyers would buy?

What I see is: only the Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Pacifica would die without fleet.

There aren't many minivans to pick from, so this shouldn't be a difficult choice. The only no frills minivan left if you don't want chrysler that's sub 30k is the base Sedona. The rest are a lot more.

kr0zet wrote: ↑

Dec 19th, 2018 6:32 pm

No price range? How about a Honda Odyssey Limited? Best minivan on the road right now.

Not the newer/newest ones. They are total crap, have you looked at the fit and finish of these?

I would recommend getting another late model Dodge Caravan. They're cheap and reliable, just check kijiji and you'll see how many people are selling this van with over 200k km.