Home & Garden

More Weeds than grass, What to do?

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Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
21844 posts
15620 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Peteheat wrote: Reading a lot of mixed reviews online.
What are your thoughts when overseeding.

After cutting grass and dethatching:
- spread seeds over existing lawn, and apply top soil over the lawn for the purpose of birds not eating the seeds ?
Or
- just premix seeds and soil, spread on lawn and rake even ?
"spread seeds over existing lawn, and apply top soil over the lawn for the purpose of birds not eating the seeds" is my choice.

If you do the second one, then you need to be sure that the raking and the mixing was even.
Sr. Member
Dec 1, 2006
953 posts
137 upvotes
Toronto
What I have;
- 60 bags of soil from Home Depot
- Scots Fertilizer from Costco form two years ago
- Spear Grass Seed (Premium Mix Seeds from Arnts (25lbs - $80/hst)
Blend: (40% Kentucky Bluegrass, 40% Creeping Red Fescue, 20% Self-Repairing Perennial Rye)

Would the following steps turn this lawn around?
- Aerate
- Pull as many weeds as I can manually
- Spray some sort of Weed Killer (Par 3 or something similar)
- Spread the soil all over the lawn
- Spread seeds
- use back of rake to lightly cover seeds
- Water regularly
- 1 week later apply fertilizer
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Deal Addict
Feb 22, 2007
2108 posts
300 upvotes
Mississauga
when asked for triple mix for overseeding, my local garden centre said they make a specialized overseeding soil:

Veggie Soil: A clay free mixture containing peat loam, sandy loam, compost and manure. This premium soil blend is native to the Holland Marsh area. Best used for: New or existing flower garden beds, new or existing vegetable garden beds,repairing lawns with grass seed or sod, top dressing existing gardens and mixing into a composter.

Overseeding Soil *NEW*: Composed of organic compost and peat loam this light, clean and weed free soil is a terrific top dresser for existing or new lawns in conjunction with grass seed. Overseeding Soil has a very consistent texture which promotes optimal grass seed growth.

Topsoil: Refers to screened local soil, not clay free. Best used for: Grading or filling uneven ground and as a terrific base for sod.

Cattle Manure: 100% pure aged cattle manure, a natural form of fertilization. Best used for: Mixing into existing flower garden beds and vegetable garden beds to fertilize and nourish
Deal Fanatic
Dec 11, 2008
7467 posts
4051 upvotes
Montreal
Madevilz wrote: They look a lot like these

Image
jeez, I try contacting different places in lawn maintenance and none of them can help me with this, saying they don't have the proper herbicide.
Deal Expert
May 30, 2005
49009 posts
10302 upvotes
Richmond Hill
Madevilz wrote: jeez, I try contacting different places in lawn maintenance and none of them can help me with this, saying they don't have the proper herbicide.
You need to get them from Alberta or the states, I think only 2,4D can take care of crabgrass.
Tons of things for sale!
Silver Coins and Numismatics | Heatware
Deal Fanatic
Dec 11, 2008
7467 posts
4051 upvotes
Montreal
Jon Lai wrote: You need to get them from Alberta or the states, I think only 2,4D can take care of crabgrass.
Think I can cross border, and get it back through customs?
Im like 30min from Plattsburgh.
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
21844 posts
15620 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
bloodylankan wrote: What I have;
- 60 bags of soil from Home Depot
- Scots Fertilizer from Costco form two years ago
- Spear Grass Seed (Premium Mix Seeds from Arnts (25lbs - $80/hst)
Blend: (40% Kentucky Bluegrass, 40% Creeping Red Fescue, 20% Self-Repairing Perennial Rye)

Would the following steps turn this lawn around?
- Aerate
- Pull as many weeds as I can manually
- Spray some sort of Weed Killer (Par 3 or something similar)
- Spread the soil all over the lawn
- Spread seeds
- use back of rake to lightly cover seeds
- Water regularly
- 1 week later apply fertilizer
If you spray with 2,4-d (the active ingredient in Par3), you will need to wait 3 weeks before applying soil and grass seeds. The 3 weeks is needed to let the 2,4-d to break down in the soil and not interfere with the germination of the grass seeds.

A better order to your steps would be:

- Spray some sort of Weed Killer (Par 3 or something similar)
- Aerate
- wait 3 weeks between weed killer application and soil
- Spread the soil all over the lawn
- Spread seeds
- Spread more soil to cover seeds
- use back of rake to lightly cover seeds
- Water regularly
- 5 weeks later apply fertilizer

Also, don't expect miracles from most bagged soil from the big box stores unless you really pay up for the higher end stuff. The low-end stuff typically has little good soil in there and is mostly sawdust and branches and bits of lumber/small mulch.
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
21844 posts
15620 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Jon Lai wrote: You need to get them from Alberta or the states, I think only 2,4D can take care of crabgrass.
2,4-d does nothing for crabgrass.

You need weed killer especially formulated for crabgrass. Many of the consumer brands in the states which contain 2,4-D now also contain an extra herbicide for crabgrass.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 11, 2008
7467 posts
4051 upvotes
Montreal
craftsman wrote: 2,4-d does nothing for crabgrass.

You need weed killer especially formulated for crabgrass. Many of the consumer brands in the states which contain 2,4-D now also contain an extra herbicide for crabgrass.
which one do you recommend?
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2014
4237 posts
1821 upvotes
, ON
Madevilz wrote: jeez, I try contacting different places in lawn maintenance and none of them can help me with this, saying they don't have the proper herbicide.
how about PAR 3?
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2014
4237 posts
1821 upvotes
, ON
Assuming you have no issue with your lawn, do you guys overseed very year? If you do, do you apply sprinkle top soil as well?

I just cut my lawn shorter than 3" and spread seeds using broadcast spreader. I don't sprinkle top soil.
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
21844 posts
15620 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Madevilz wrote: which one do you recommend?
I don't believe any of the products offered in Canada work on crabgrass so you will need to head South of the border. Any of the big box stores will sell weed killer... just look for something that has something for crabgrass. If you have a lot of weeds or crabgrass, you should get the hose end sprayer rather than the trigger spray ones.

NOTE> Crabgrass is only really controllable now as the crabgrass is still young. Once the crabgrass gets older in the next few months, this stuff does nothing for it so there no point in spraying until next year.
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
21844 posts
15620 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
anotherbargainhunter wrote: Assuming you have no issue with your lawn, do you guys overseed very year? If you do, do you apply sprinkle top soil as well?

I just cut my lawn shorter than 3" and spread seeds using broadcast spreader. I don't sprinkle top soil.
Once you have a nice thick lawn, you don't need to overseed every year. I would start 'spot' overseeding so those spots that may seem a little thinner will get some extra seed, maybe some soil, and additional fertilizer.
Sr. Member
Dec 1, 2006
953 posts
137 upvotes
Toronto
craftsman wrote: If you spray with 2,4-d (the active ingredient in Par3), you will need to wait 3 weeks before applying soil and grass seeds. The 3 weeks is needed to let the 2,4-d to break down in the soil and not interfere with the germination of the grass seeds.

A better order to your steps would be:

- Spray some sort of Weed Killer (Par 3 or something similar)
- Aerate
- wait 3 weeks between weed killer application and soil
- Spread the soil all over the lawn
- Spread seeds
- Spread more soil to cover seeds
- use back of rake to lightly cover seeds
- Water regularly
- 5 weeks later apply fertilizer

Also, don't expect miracles from most bagged soil from the big box stores unless you really pay up for the higher end stuff. The low-end stuff typically has little good soil in there and is mostly sawdust and branches and bits of lumber/small mulch.
You think I should spray par 3 everywhere or just spot spray the weeds?
Also can you use this stuff when there is rain the forecast?
Deal Expert
May 30, 2005
49009 posts
10302 upvotes
Richmond Hill
craftsman wrote: 2,4-d does nothing for crabgrass.

You need weed killer especially formulated for crabgrass. Many of the consumer brands in the states which contain 2,4-D now also contain an extra herbicide for crabgrass.
You are right, I was confused because as you mentioned, many of the brands selling 2,4D include a crabgrass formulation so I assumed it was one of the same.
Tons of things for sale!
Silver Coins and Numismatics | Heatware
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2014
4237 posts
1821 upvotes
, ON
craftsman wrote: Once you have a nice thick lawn, you don't need to overseed every year. I would start 'spot' overseeding so those spots that may seem a little thinner will get some extra seed, maybe some soil, and additional fertilizer.
It is about one year old lawn. They were sods installed by the builder. Do I need to overseed then?
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
21844 posts
15620 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
bloodylankan wrote: You think I should spray par 3 everywhere or just spot spray the weeds?
Also can you use this stuff when there is rain the forecast?
Depends on how bad is the weed problem... The ugly thing about many weeds is that you need to kill it right down to the root so physical removal of the top of the weed will only mean that in a few weeks, the weed is back. I typically say that you need two applications - one before you mow in order to get the large weeds (mowing will cut off those leaves and you really need the leaves in order to get the weed killer into the plant) and once after you mow so that you can get those weeds that are short. You don't need to do overlapping applications as stated in the instructions this way and you can do 'spottish' treatments as some areas of your lawn will be relatively free and others will be full of a particular weed. There's no point in spraying parts that are relatively free as the weed killer has no preventative mechanism (ie it only works for growing weeds and not seeds).

Yes you can use it if rain is in the forecast as many of the weed killers will be rainfast in a matter of hours as listed on their instructions. However, I would add a few hours to that as there's nothing wrong with ensuring that the weed killer soaks in!
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
21844 posts
15620 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
anotherbargainhunter wrote: It is about one year old lawn. They were sods installed by the builder. Do I need to overseed then?
I would. Sod is never particularly thick grass to begin with. Plus the seams are almost never perfectly grown together.
Newbie
Jul 10, 2013
71 posts
50 upvotes
Oakville
GTA peeps - anyone overseeing tomorrow? I still see lows of 5-6C this week , but rain Sun-Wed. Pull the trigger tomorrow or wait until next weekend?
Sr. Member
Nov 10, 2005
514 posts
481 upvotes
Can someone recommend quality seeds from any of the standard big box stores?

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