Personal Finance

Motus Bank ("motusbank") HISA, TFSA, and GIC rate drops

  • Last Updated:
  • Sep 15th, 2019 8:37 pm
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dmehus wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:49 pm
@dekvitaly Tangerine isn't all bad, you're right. They've improved their GIC and USD HISA rates dramatically. The knocks I have with Tangerine are the following:

- Limit of three linked external bank accounts;
- Lack of free and unlimted Interac e-Transfers or cheques (I'd accept one or the other); and,
- Lack of sufficient transaction narrative detail with respect to ATM transactions and mobile cheque deposits particularly.

I'd also like the ability to opt out completely from their spending categories and personal finance tools. If they'd do those first three things, I wouldn't bother with CUs for day-to-day banking. Would still keep Hubert, though!

Cheers,
Doug
Hubert can't be used as Day-To-Day! None of those MB CUs account worth the headache.

My first remains Tangerine and second by Motive :)
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dekvitaly wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:50 pm
Hubert can't be used as Day-To-Day! None of those MB CUs account worth the headache.

My first remains Tangerine and second by Motive :)
I don't use Hubert for day-to-day banking transactions and their push/pull transfers are super fast. If I initiate a pull transaction from another bank to Hubert before 7:30 am Pacific, it's in my Hubert account right away and debited from my other bank account by the end of the day (assuming business day, of course). So, I can live with that. I only keep about $12,000 in my HISA with Hubert and the rest is in a 3.15% quarterly 1-year GIC maturing in January that I will likely redeploy into equities, assuming the market hasn't run up again.

Cheers,
Doug
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dmehus wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:54 pm
I don't use Hubert for day-to-day banking transactions and their push/pull transfers are super fast. If I initiate a pull transaction from another bank to Hubert before 7:30 am Pacific, it's in my Hubert account right away and debited from my other bank account by the end of the day (assuming business day, of course). So, I can live with that. I only keep about $12,000 in my HISA with Hubert and the rest is in a 3.15% quarterly 1-year GIC maturing in January that I will likely redeploy into equities, assuming the market hasn't run up again.

Cheers,
Doug
This part, I believe it is the C1CU system! Alterna and Motive both act that way too.
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dekvitaly wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:57 pm
This part, I believe it is the C1CU system! Alterna and Motive both act that way too.
True, but may not be unique to Central 1 since the Big 5 banks + Desjardins are all fast clearers and transaction processors. Exceptions would be Tangerine (due to their clearing arrangement with RBC and 1 extra day posting turnaround) and Simplii Financial (1 extra day posting turnaround).

Cheers,
Doug
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dmehus wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:46 pm
I'm surprised you even have accounts with them, @titaniumtux, considering their lack of deposit hold release limits and long posting delays, and the fact that you also have accounts with ACU, SCU, Motive Financial, and Simplii Financial, all of whom either beat Motus on rates and/or product and service features. ;)

To @ownthesky, Meridian/Motus CEO Bill Maurin has a chartered accountant background. I don't expect him to tolerate losses and slow growing lending book for long. I give it 2 years, 3 at most, before he pulls the pin and they initiate a process to transfer Motus customer balances into existing or newly-created Meridian memberships under a virtual branch transit.

Way to go, @Shawguy! It's a shame considering the amount of money they put into starting it up and the nice customer facing interfaces they have. It's too bad they, like so many FIs (banks and CUs), weren't more substance (that is, back-end efficient processes and policies) than flash. ;)

Cheers,
Doug
I don't have Motive. Was entertaining opening with Motive, but they seem to have somewhat lessened the deal (no WB, no overdraft on chq account for new account holders). Leaning towards B2B.

*
Last edited by MrDisco on Sep 11th, 2019 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dmehus wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:46 pm

To @ownthesky, Meridian/Motus CEO Bill Maurin has a chartered accountant background. I don't expect him to tolerate losses and slow growing lending book for long. I give it 2 years, 3 at most, before he pulls the pin and they initiate a process to transfer Motus customer balances into existing or newly-created Meridian memberships under a virtual branch transit.
What are your thoughts on Alterna's financials by comparison? Have they secured enough capital for a sustainable business?
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titaniumtux wrote:
Sep 11th, 2019 12:31 am

I don't have Motive. Was entertaining opening with Motive, but they seem to have somewhat lessened the deal (no WB, no overdraft on chq account for new account holders). Leaning towards B2B.

*
I thought you told me that you had a Motive account and I think @dekvitaly was saying you didn't have a Motus account. Do you have a Motus account?
ownthesky wrote:
Sep 11th, 2019 12:32 am
What are your thoughts on Alterna's financials by comparison? Have they secured enough capital for a sustainable business?
CS Alterna Bank, operating as Alterna Bank, has been around as an Alterna Savings subsidiary for a lot longer, but looking at their 2018 financial statements, we can see they grew deposits about by about $93 million from $578 million at year-end 2017 to $671 million at year-end 2018. Loan and mortgage growth outpaced deposit growth, which is positive for profitability, from $522 million to $703 million as at Dec. 31, 2018. Interest expense grew about $5 million from $9.9 million to $14.4 million in 2018 versus interest income growth of about $9 million from about $8 million to just shy of $18 million, also in 2018 and also positive.

https://www.alternabank.ca/SharedConten ... nts_AB.pdf

For comparison, Motive Financial, which as a virtual branch of Canadian Western Bank doesn't break out its financials, does tell us what it has outstanding in terms of demand and term deposits. It had $497 million in deposits as at year-end 2018, roughly half of which would likely be demand deposits and, of that, half of that being the Motive Savvy Savings. So, even if they have $125 million in Motive Savvy Savings Account, that only costs them $2-3 million per year in interest expense (at 2.8%). So, as long as their deposit base doesn't skyrocket, they can probably afford to keep paying 2.8%.

Achieva Financial, the largest of the Manitoba CUs, has, by my estimation, amassed about $250 million in deposits; Hubert and Outlook are likely next with about $130 million apiece.

Cheers,
Doug
Last edited by MrDisco on Sep 11th, 2019 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kthxbye wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 10:04 pm
Absolutely not. Credit unions are the competition for the big 5... by not being the big 5.
If the big 5 were the big 10, each one would be much less big and they would have to compete more, offering better deals to customers.
dmehus wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:46 pm
and the nice customer facing interfaces they have.
This is what I like most about Motus. Motus and Tangerine are the only banks I feel comfortable recommending to nontechnical people who would have trouble traversing the 90s era web design common at most banks. And if you want decent design and free e-transfers, Motus is still the only option.
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Not surprising, not only is motusbank not making money but the BoC will probably cut rates soon enough. Everyone is tanking their savings account rates right now.
I like credit unions.
Member with DUCA Credit Union. Accounts with Tangerine, BMO, and EQ Bank.
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someweirdo wrote:
Sep 11th, 2019 5:53 am
This is what I like most about Motus. Motus and Tangerine are the only banks I feel comfortable recommending to nontechnical people who would have trouble traversing the 90s era web design common at most banks. And if you want decent design and free e-transfers, Motus is still the only option.
Talk about taking what I said out of context, @someweirdo, by stripping out the rest of that sentence! At any rate, what I was saying was that, yes, Motus does a good job of customer-friendly front-end interfaces. But if their "pipes" are rusty, full of asbestos, and corroding, then what good are the snazzy and easy-to-use front-end interfaces? They've got to have both and they clearly don't!

Cheers,
Doug
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jacnel wrote:
Sep 11th, 2019 8:09 am
Not surprising, not only is motusbank not making money but the BoC will probably cut rates soon enough. Everyone is tanking their savings account rates right now.
Yep, agree completely. As BoC rates contract, Motus will be even more adversely prone to downside moves in rates given that they don't need the deposits relative to their small lending book. That's why it's not inconceivable, and is likely even, to see Motus contract GIC and HISA rates at a rate double what their competitors contract rates, at least in the short term.

Cheers,
Doug
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dmehus wrote:
Sep 10th, 2019 11:54 pm
I don't use Hubert for day-to-day banking transactions and their push/pull transfers are super fast. If I initiate a pull transaction from another bank to Hubert before 7:30 am Pacific, it's in my Hubert account right away and debited from my other bank account by the end of the day (assuming business day, of course). So, I can live with that. I only keep about $12,000 in my HISA with Hubert and the rest is in a 3.15% quarterly 1-year GIC maturing in January that I will likely redeploy into equities, assuming the market hasn't run up again.

Cheers,
Doug
I like Hubert as a hub, because of their easy link up with other FIs and great customer service. Other FIs with easy to link functionality include EQ bank,Tangerine and Oaken. What's your opinion on best FI as hub ( not necessarily as day to day bank )?
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Bull Dog wrote:
Sep 11th, 2019 12:04 pm
I like Hubert as a hub, because of their easy link up with other FIs and great customer service. Other FIs with easy to link functionality include EQ bank,Tangerine and Oaken. What's your opinion on best FI as hub ( not necessarily as day to day bank )?
Hubert would be good, and though I don't bank with Motive Financial, Motive Financial would also be good as a hub (despite a paper-based linking process, at least they don't have to be CSR stamped like Simplii Financial). I can't recommend EQ Bank due to their crappy e-Statements and insufficient level of transaction description/narrative detail. So I would say Hubert, Motive, and PayPal, though the latter involves an extra "hop" at least they don't hold funds if you're double verified. Oaken maybe, but I don't bank with them so can't recommend as I don't know their level of transactipn description/narrative detail. Also, they hold funds on pulled EFT deposits, but so does Hubert.

Cheers,
Doug
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dmehus wrote:
Sep 11th, 2019 12:09 pm
Hubert would be good, and though I don't bank with Motive Financial, Motive Financial would also be good as a hub (despite a paper-based linking process, at least they don't have to be CSR stamped like Simplii Financial). I can't recommend EQ Bank due to their crappy e-Statements and insufficient level of transaction description/narrative detail. So I would say Hubert, Motive, and PayPal, though the latter involves an extra "hop" at least they don't hold funds if you're double verified. Oaken maybe, but I don't bank with them so can't recommend as I don't know their level of transactipn description/narrative detail. Also, they hold funds on pulled EFT deposits, but so does Hubert.
Paypal is an interesting option, since they don't charge fees for transferring in and out in same currency, I already have Hubert and Motive, but Motive requires quite a bit of linking at the beginning. Transferwise charges you about 4.00 to transfer out money, even if it's in same currency, so that's not even an option.
Cheers,
Doug
Paypal is an interesting one I hadn't even thought of, since they don't charge incoming or outgoing transfer fees. Transferwise Borderless account charges about $4.00 to transfer out money.
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dmehus wrote:
Sep 11th, 2019 11:55 am
Talk about taking what I said out of context, @someweirdo, by stripping out the rest of that sentence! At any rate, what I was saying was that, yes, Motus does a good job of customer-friendly front-end interfaces. But if their "pipes" are rusty, full of asbestos, and corroding, then what good are the snazzy and easy-to-use front-end interfaces? They've got to have both and they clearly don't!

Cheers,
Doug
I wasn't trying to misconstrue what you were saying. I just wanted to comment on that one small part of it.

But snazzy and easy-to-use front-end interfaces have real value. I don't personally mind enduring poor UI to get a better rate or faster service. But some people really struggle with the clunkiness of places like Simplii, and they can have an easier time using Motus.

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