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Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
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Tiberius wrote:
Nov 9th, 2012 10:04 am
Does anyone know if the count of bedrooms has an impact on an MPAC Assessment?? I just noticed on the AboutMyProperty site, they show my home as being a 4 bedroom, when it's only a 3 bedroom. As I understand it, anything in the basement doesn't count for those stats... The square footage doesn't really change, but I'm curious what that might do to the MPAC valuation... At least arguing that a "fact" about the property is wrong than just arguing over "valuation".... but I had to do this when I first moved in when they got the homes first assessment wrong (they calculated the square footage wrong by 500 feet.... it made a huge difference in the valuation).

And another mistake... they list basement area to be equal to the main floor area - but the basement area should exclude the 2 car garage square footage... come on... how hard is this people??

Why can't they just get things right??
the number of bedrooms affects the assessment. same with the finished basement area
file a RfR and ask them to change the data they have on records
re who is to blame, I blame the city. that's where your money goes
Member
Feb 19, 2011
202 posts
20 upvotes
Thanks for the info about being able to look up MPAC values. Very interesting.

Does anyone has any info on how much value MPAC places on a detached home vs. a semi-detached? I live in pretty much midtown Toronto. Around here anyway, when it comes to actually selling a home, a detached will almost always go for significantly more than a semi because of the potential for new builds on the detached lots. However, the different in price that MPAC is showing me for my semi and for many nearby detacheds isn't even close to what the different in sale prices would be.

Also, how much does sale price impact the MPAC assessment? We bought ours only 18 months ago. Does that mean that our sale price from 2011 will make our MPAC assessment higher, since others may have bought for less in the years before we did?
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Nov 21, 2009
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Alanaaaaa wrote:
Nov 12th, 2012 3:02 pm
Thanks for the info about being able to look up MPAC values. Very interesting.

Does anyone has any info on how much value MPAC places on a detached home vs. a semi-detached? I live in pretty much midtown Toronto. Around here anyway, when it comes to actually selling a home, a detached will almost always go for significantly more than a semi because of the potential for new builds on the detached lots. However, the different in price that MPAC is showing me for my semi and for many nearby detacheds isn't even close to what the different in sale prices would be.

Also, how much does sale price impact the MPAC assessment? We bought ours only 18 months ago. Does that mean that our sale price from 2011 will make our MPAC assessment higher, since others may have bought for less in the years before we did?
they should use records of sales for the assessment. if detached properties are sold at much lower prices, you have a case
if you bought your property in 2011, the price you paid is the best evidence. for evidence they use records of sale one year before the assessment date, ie Jan 1, 2012 and one year after so you are in that window. they then time adjust the price to the assessment date. try to find records of sales of similar properties for comparison. if they are at the same level as yours, file a Request for Reconsideration at MPAC. that's the first step in fighting your property taxes
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Feb 9, 2012
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Toronto
Is there a limit on how many properties I can check on through the MPAC AboutMyProperty Site?
Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
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cessnabmw wrote:
Nov 13th, 2012 1:16 pm
Is there a limit on how many properties I can check on through the MPAC AboutMyProperty Site?
it used to be 100 reports
Member
Feb 19, 2011
202 posts
20 upvotes
cessnabmw wrote:
Nov 13th, 2012 1:16 pm
Is there a limit on how many properties I can check on through the MPAC AboutMyProperty Site?
vero is correct. I think it was at about 75 reports that it warned me that I only had 25 left. That was when I was on there yesterday.
Member
Apr 11, 2009
213 posts
41 upvotes
Assessed mine as 20% higher than my purchase price in April 2012

Btw - I also got charged $156 for the inspection fee. I'm a new homeowner, is this customary / normal that we get charged the inspection fee to assess our property, for purposes of their tax billings?!
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Nov 21, 2009
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teryst wrote:
Nov 18th, 2012 3:43 pm
Assessed mine as 20% higher than my purchase price in April 2012

Btw - I also got charged $156 for the inspection fee. I'm a new homeowner, is this customary / normal that we get charged the inspection fee to assess our property, for purposes of their tax billings?!
Fight it
I never heard about charging people for the inspection. I think you were scammed
Sr. Member
Apr 1, 2012
980 posts
96 upvotes
SCARBOROUGH
pardon me, i am completely a dumb. never owned a property in canada. no idea what such assessment is/was. however got my assessment for the property that i bought (closed on) March/2012. after reading the stats below could any1 give me some idea whether i should worry about it or it went in my favour? (ppl who r thinking how dumb i am, plz refer to the opening sentence) i filled in assessment form honestly btw.

property value 2008: 424K
property value 2012: 517K
change over 4 yr: 93K

tax yr phased in assessment
2013 447,250
2014 470,500
2015 493750
2016 517,000

my phased in assessment has changed by 5.48%. in my municipality average changed by 5.6% (scarborough in city of toronto).

i paid more than what was assessed for 2012, i.e. 517K

is it good or bad for me? what is the inference of this stat?
thanks
Deal Fanatic
Apr 20, 2011
5617 posts
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Since you paid more than 517, you're fine.
Though if MPAC comes in lower, it might mean you overpaid, unless it's just a little lower. That's something else entirely ;)
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Jan 6, 2002
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Toronto
spiderman6 wrote:
Nov 18th, 2012 11:44 pm
pardon me, i am completely a dumb. never owned a property in canada. no idea what such assessment is/was. however got my assessment for the property that i bought (closed on) March/2012. after reading the stats below could any1 give me some idea whether i should worry about it or it went in my favour? (ppl who r thinking how dumb i am, plz refer to the opening sentence) i filled in assessment form honestly btw.
The MPAC assessment is the value assigned to your property to determine what share of municipal/city taxes your pay. It is a formal assessment of value, but not one directly linked to the actual purchase price of your property.

An increase in your MPAC assessment does NOT necessarily mean an increase in your city taxes: if your MPAC value increased *less* the average for the city, then you will pay a smaller share of the taxes than everyone else.

In your case your increase was 5.48% and the average was 5.6%, so you will end up paying very slightly less tax than you would have otherwise.

If the City of Toronto budget increases the total tax rate by, for example, 5%, then that increase is applied to your share and to everyone else's, equally.

As a very simple example, suppose you were paying $2000/yr in taxes. After this assessment, since your property increased slightly less in value than everyone else, your share of the overall taxes paid to the city will be slightly less, for example maybe $1997/yr. But if the City of Toronto increases the tax rate by 5% as part of its normal yearly budget planning, you would get a 5% increase on $1997 --> $2096.85/yr.

The important thing to remember is that unlike some places, your city taxes are NOT a straight tax on your property valueation. ie if your assessment went from $400 to $500 thousand does NOT mean your taxes will increase by 25%!
Yes, Here's to the few
Who forgive what you do
And the fewer who don't even care.
Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
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hoob wrote:
Nov 19th, 2012 9:47 am
The MPAC assessment is the value assigned to your property to determine what share of municipal/city taxes your pay. It is a formal assessment of value, but not one directly linked to the actual purchase price of your property.

An increase in your MPAC assessment does NOT necessarily mean an increase in your city taxes: if your MPAC value increased *less* the average for the city, then you will pay a smaller share of the taxes than everyone else.

In your case your increase was 5.48% and the average was 5.6%, so you will end up paying very slightly less tax than you would have otherwise.

If the City of Toronto budget increases the total tax rate by, for example, 5%, then that increase is applied to your share and to everyone else's, equally.

As a very simple example, suppose you were paying $2000/yr in taxes. After this assessment, since your property increased slightly less in value than everyone else, your share of the overall taxes paid to the city will be slightly less, for example maybe $1997/yr. But if the City of Toronto increases the tax rate by 5% as part of its normal yearly budget planning, you would get a 5% increase on $1997 --> $2096.85/yr.

The important thing to remember is that unlike some places, your city taxes are NOT a straight tax on your property valueation. ie if your assessment went from $400 to $500 thousand does NOT mean your taxes will increase by 25%!
actually it's directly linked to the record of sale of your property
19. (1) The assessment of land shall be based on its current value. 1997, c. 5, s. 12; 2007, c. 7, Sched. 1, s. 3.
where
“current value” means, in relation to land, the amount of money the fee simple, if unencumbered, would realize if sold at arm’s length by a willing seller to a willing buyer; (“valeur actuelle”)
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... e.htm#BK24
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Jan 6, 2002
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vero95 wrote:
Nov 19th, 2012 2:13 pm
actually it's directly linked to the record of sale of your property

where
“current value” means, in relation to land, the amount of money the fee simple, if unencumbered, would realize if sold at arm’s length by a willing seller to a willing buyer; (“valeur actuelle”)
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... e.htm#BK24
Not sure how you're reading that, but to me that's pretty clear based exactly on what you quoted, that it's not linked to the actual, documented price of your purchase. Instead it's a theoretical valuation -- which, indirectly -- is based on a model that takes into account the aggregate of recent actual sales of similar properties.

But it's not a valuation based directly on the actual sale value you bought or sold for, even if that actual sale occured at the exact right moment in time.
Yes, Here's to the few
Who forgive what you do
And the fewer who don't even care.
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Nov 21, 2009
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hoob wrote:
Nov 19th, 2012 2:23 pm
Not sure how you're reading that, but to me that's pretty clear based exactly on what you quoted, that it's not linked to the actual, documented price of your purchase. Instead it's a theoretical valuation -- which, indirectly -- is based on a model that takes into account the aggregate of recent actual sales of similar properties.

But it's not a valuation based directly on the actual sale value you bought or sold for, even if that actual sale occured at the exact right moment in time.
where does it say anything about the model or how it's supposed to be calculated? they use a model but if the discrepancy is large, which means the model is wrong, the record of sale of your property is the best evidence since it proves that the property did not find a buyer for higher price than you paid
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vero95 wrote:
Nov 19th, 2012 2:35 pm
where does it say anything about the model or how it's supposed to be calculated? they use a model but if the discrepancy is large, which means the model is wrong, the record of sale of your property is the best evidence since it proves that the property did not find a buyer for higher price than you paid
There is ample empirical evidence, including much already posted to this thread, that indicates the MPAC assessment is not directly linked an actual, recent sale price of the actual property being assessed.

No, I do not know the details of the model. But it is self-evident that any valuation procedure would be based on a model, and that such a model would need to take into account aggregate sale prices of similar properties (including, perhaps, the actual sale price of the actual property.)

But I would certainly disagree with your premise that a large discrepancy between the two is de facto evidence the assessment is wrong (as opposed to the sale price) -- for exactly the reasons stated in the exerpt you quoted. The actual sale price is NOT universally the best evidence, since not all sales are at arm's length, unencumbered, or with completely willing (market objective) buyers and sellers.
Yes, Here's to the few
Who forgive what you do
And the fewer who don't even care.
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