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Locked: The Muslim world must confront the underlying problems in Islamic theology

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i6s1 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 4:36 pm
It's not an either/or question. You can oppose religion while simultaneously supporting education.

For example, and taxpayer funding of religious schools. Education is improved because no class time is spent being indoctrinated with ancient myths, leaving more time for learning things that are both true and useful.
Agreed. Much better for the region to catch up with their own ways and pace, not what we imposed with our ideology and prejudice.

If Islamic culture were so weak, they would have fallen apart without a trace today.

The west is making it do or die, of course the reactions will include some westerners die. Question is, is Canadians deaths required and for acts we didn't pull?
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mr_raider wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 4:26 pm
Now you're picking nits. If you add up America first and both equally, you get 52% for Christians, and 44% for Muslims. That's an 8% spread, well within the margin of error for this type of survey. Last I checked identifying with your religion is not treason. Plenty of immigrants are strongly attached to their cultural heritage, and having different identities or heritages is no issue AFAIK. And this data is the subset of people which "identify with a religion". You have excluded those who do not identify with a faith, and those people are automatically less religious.


Christians had no adaptation to undergo, the wrote the damn constitution and all the laws. Being a Christian is the essence of being American, since the US is a Gof fearing nation.


How valid is this data? I have no idea, but it was intended for the previous poster who hurls the Pew foundation data for UK Muslims at me everytime I bend down to tie my shoelaces. I just mined the same web site he does.
The data seems to be indicative of what we socially already see.. a culture that likes to move to western civilization but while most I'd say do adapt, too many don't, and those elements are far too malleable to extremism, with too often being the case where their extremism was known by the community but little to no action was taken to alert authorities. Then, when in many cases authorities do know, they don't act either.

So I won't say this is exclusively a Muslim thing to deal with, this is very much something western society can at large combat better by being far less politically correct, and a lot more pressuring for adaptation, never mind a hell of a lot more selective and discriminatory of who they allow in.
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AndySixx wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 7:25 pm
The data seems to be indicative of what we socially already see.. a culture that likes to move to western civilization but while most I'd say do adapt, too many don't, and those elements are far too malleable to extremism, with too often being the case where their extremism was known by the community but little to no action was taken to alert authorities. Then, when in many cases authorities do know, they don't act either.
Too many? Very few I would say.

What would be the reaction of this guy was Muslim?

http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4392300
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mr_raider wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 7:28 pm
Too many? Very few I would say.

What would be the reaction of this guy was Muslim?

http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4392300
Unpopular opinions versus refusing to assimilate and higher likelihood of terrorism in western nations than other religions/non-religions.. I can totally see the connection.

Next up: Some Christian says they believe marriage is between man and woman vs. mowing people down in a rental GTA style.
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Wow another thread on Islam by someone who isn't Muslim... Don't you have anything better to do then post about Muslims. I look down the off topic all I see is locked threads usually about Islam or Muslims. If you guys want to have a serious talk on Islam why don't we organize a day and have a conversation in person with actual scholars drinking a nice cup of tea.
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mr_raider wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:42 pm
How about some sanctions against Saudi Arabia? Why are we sanctioning Iran, when Saudi is much worse in many ways? Saudi is at the root of the fundamental re-interpretation of Islam that has taken hold in the 20th century.

Plus Pakistan should be solidly admonished for playing both sides if the game, in their eternal one upsmanship with India.
mr_raider wrote:
Nov 7th, 2017 8:57 am
That's why Bengali Muslim women could get away with wearing sarees that show midriffs
you're still butthurt about 1971 Face With Tears Of Joy
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karakoram wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 8:45 pm
you're still butthurt about 1971 Face With Tears Of Joy
A rapid examination of the events or around 1971 will show you that residents of the former "East Pakistan" had to endure far more than butthurt.
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mr_raider wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:01 pm
A rapid examination of the events or around 1971 will show you that residents of the former "East Pakistan" had to endure far more than butthurt.
cool story bro, world has moved on.. you should too.
holding grudges is bad for your health
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Piro21 wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 2:44 pm
We know it's true, they know it's true, but this thread is going to get locked and discussion about this won't be allowed because a bunch of Muslims who don't fully follow their religion are going to get upset that we're talking about the Muslims who do.

The simple fact of the matter is that the three Abrahamic religions are bloody, barbaric, and direct their followers to commit all the horrors of the past that the world has tried to put behind itself. Two of those religions have reformed and no longer follow the directives that command them to enslave, torture, rape, and murder all outsiders, but one hasn't and will brutally murder you for even discussing reformation.

It's not 'racist' or whatever to discuss old testament vs new testament Christianity, or orthodox vs reform Judaism, or medieval and renaissance history, but it's apparently very upsetting to discuss the one western religion that hasn't reformed and still follows the rules it followed before the crusades.
So on the one hand you think Islam needs to “reform”, but on the other hand you believe that there are a bunch of Muslims here that don’t follow their religion because they disagree with Muslims that practice their faith literally? Who are you to say which Muslims follow their faith “fully” and which don’t?
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Mylocosta wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 8:30 pm
Wow another thread on Islam by someone who isn't Muslim... Don't you have anything better to do then post about Muslims. I look down the off topic all I see is locked threads usually about Islam or Muslims. If you guys want to have a serious talk on Islam why don't we organize a day and have a conversation in person with actual scholars drinking a nice cup of tea.
Like the scholars calling for the death of Jews, the rape of western women, or the subjugation of Europe? Sort of ironic that you mention the opinions of scholars in this thread.

Sources:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... -1.4209384

https://clarionproject.org/imam-warns-w ... -be-raped/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/breed-and ... s-muslims/
Last edited by iflyplanes on Nov 9th, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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karakoram wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:25 pm
cool story bro, world has moved on.. you should too.
holding grudges is bad for your health
I was actually referring to Pakistan's recent actions, not 1971. The Pakistani ISI trained, armed and gave sanctuary to the Taliban, while still being "allied" with the US in the "warr on terror".
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random pattern wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:28 pm
So on the one hand you think Islam needs to “reform”, but on the other hand you believe that there are a bunch of Muslims here that don’t follow their religion because they disagree with Muslims that practice their faith literally? Who are you to say which Muslims follow their faith “fully” and which don’t?
Behold: the no true scotsman fallacy

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman
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Mylocosta wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 8:30 pm
Wow another thread on Islam by someone who isn't Muslim... Don't you have anything better to do then post about Muslims. I look down the off topic all I see is locked threads usually about Islam or Muslims. If you guys want to have a serious talk on Islam why don't we organize a day and have a conversation in person with actual scholars drinking a nice cup of tea.
conversation in person with actual scholars ? - no thanks

I believe that this article was written by a Pakistani muslim ... probably not a islamic scholar, not sure guessing (and maybe that is one of the reasons this article make sense ... ) ...

btw the title should be more like "The Muslim and 'western' world must confront the underlying problems in Islamic theology" ...
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mr_raider wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 7:53 am
I was actually referring to Pakistan's recent actions, not 1971. The Pakistani ISI trained, armed and gave sanctuary to the Taliban, while still being "allied" with the US in the "warr on terror".
history isn't your forte.

taliban blueprints were created by cia with house of saud backing and other nations. pak being a broke country provided mercenary services. goal accomplished by defeating soviets in afg.

you're deluded if you think war in afg is "war on terror". along with opium, they're fighting over mining rights. americans will stay indefinitely due to strategic significance of that region. conveniently keeps iran, pakistan and china in check
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iflyplanes wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 12:05 am
Like the scholars calling for the death of Jews, the rape of western women, or the subjagation of Europe? Sort of ironic that you mention the opinions of scholars in this thread.

Sources:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... -1.4209384

https://clarionproject.org/imam-warns-w ... -be-raped/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/breed-and ... s-muslims/
Muslims want the death to Jews? I am Muslim and think of the Jews as our cousin religion. The only issue that I can think of is the whole Palestine situation as a source of anger. If anyone wants to kill Jews it's the Europeans from what i heard they killed a whole bunch of them not long ago. As for the rapes that have happened yes there have been situations when Muslims have commuted such acts but you can't say all Muslims are like that. There are people from different religions and countries guilty of this unfortunately.

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