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Locked: The myth of the unemployed university graduate

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Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
Mark77 wrote: I have provided plenty of sources and described a significant number of top grads both at the Bachelors and higher level who have experienced such. The quite public collapse of quite a bit of Canada's high tech sector should in the wake of record enrolments in high tech programs should tell you something about supply and demand in the market if you don't want to trust me alone. Anecdotes are not useless. And there is nothing wrong with me. So nice try, but seriously, your veiled attempt at a personal attack is completely uncalled for and makes you look like the proverbial 'jerk'.
You have provided literally zero sources by my count. Maybe you can post them again? Your comment about enrolment in 'high tech programs' and the collapse of Nortel doesn't mean anything. Show me something that reports that engineering grads can't get jobs. Show me something that reports that high marks means unemployment. You literally can't provide a single source that backs up these claims. All you have to do is reply to this post and paste one in. Except you'll actually say that you've provided them many times before (without linking to one of your old comments) or you'll point to some other poster's useless anecdotes. You're a joke.
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
Mark77 wrote: The Canada-wide stats show that 2/3rds of Canada's engineering talent are not employed in engineering, and many aren't even employed at all. It is fairly obvious that the unemployment problem tends to be concentrated in fields of engineering cyclically out of favour. So people in these out of favour sectors have unfortunately experienced quite a different set of outcomes than those in the in-favour sectors/disciplines. A 2/3rds unemployment/underemployment rate is a fairly solid indication that a significant amount of such displacement is completely involuntary and not related to the skills of the individuals in question.
I don't know how you can claim that 2/3 of Canada's engineering graduates don't get engineering jobs (which I believe comes from the OSPE report) when you also are happy to point out elsewhere that many engineering grads don't require a license. If you're referring to some other report, please post it. Your 2/3 figure is the biggest load out there. You think a problem that huge would be well reported, but you don't have anything.

* by the way, do you know the definition of the world 'talent?' It means that you're good. I can assure you that not every grad is 'talent.' Only the best are.
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
Mark77 wrote: We have stats that show 2/3rds of Canada's engineering talent are not able to find relevant employment.
No we don't.
Banned
User avatar
Jul 14, 2007
441 posts
409 upvotes
Statistics Canada has just released a new version of the National Household Survey - you can see on their website where graduates of a given engineering field end up. Have a look - the truth is out there. Engineering has the worst uptake rate of any regulated profession in Ontario.
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
DrXenon wrote: Statistics Canada has just released a new version of the National Household Survey - you can see on their website where graduates of a given engineering field end up. Have a look - the truth is out there. Engineering has the worst uptake rate of any regulated profession in Ontario.
Thank you for posting that. Can you point me to a direct link? I'm looking now and I can't find anything new. When I click on Education and Labour, it says it's from 2011 and was released in June 2013.
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
DrXenon wrote: Engineering has the worst uptake rate of any regulated profession in Ontario.
I would hope so. Engineering grads can do just about anything. A lot more than a medical school graduate or a nursing school graduate or a law school graduate.
Deal Guru
Nov 21, 2011
11402 posts
5239 upvotes
flight878 wrote: clease is acting like a female version of Mark77. And thus, she could just be contaminating the thread more than the person she is confronting. And she gets in a tizzy when one dares to criticize HR shortcomings in the hiring process. It'd be nice if she could contribute her thoughts here in the same constructive manner she's been doing in that EI thread...
Your reading comprehension needs work
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 1, 2006
3370 posts
346 upvotes
Brisbane
DrXenon wrote: Statistics Canada has just released a new version of the National Household Survey - you can see on their website where graduates of a given engineering field end up. Have a look - the truth is out there. Engineering has the worst uptake rate of any regulated profession in Ontario.
You took the time to read this new report, write a reply here, yet not post a link or at least a screenshot? The household survey is a massive amount of data that can be manipulated and filtered in an infinite number of combinations. If it's super easy to find on their website as you suggest here, post a link to it so we can all read the same thing you're reading. No one here has any clue what data you're reading from. Don't expect us to do the legwork to prove your claims. That's your job.
Member
User avatar
Oct 20, 2010
492 posts
194 upvotes
Austin, TX
Mark77 wrote: The Canada-wide stats show that 2/3rds of Canada's engineering talent are not employed in engineering, and many aren't even employed at all. It is fairly obvious that the unemployment problem tends to be concentrated in fields of engineering cyclically out of favour. So people in these out of favour sectors have unfortunately experienced quite a different set of outcomes than those in the in-favour sectors/disciplines. A 2/3rds unemployment/underemployment rate is a fairly solid indication that a significant amount of such displacement is completely involuntary and not related to the skills of the individuals in question.
Which Canada-wide stats? I'm noticing that the more your try to defend your stance, the more vacuous your statements become. You're showing exhaustion, but no sign of attrition given your tendency to recharge after squirreling away for a few days after being called out enough times.

The only statistical report I remember alluding that 2/3 of engineering graduates were not practising their professions in a licensed capacity was from the OSPE I believe (provincial scope). Either way, that does NOT mean 2/3 of engineering graduates are not employed in engineering! You're worse than Fox News. Not all positions, as you know, require that license. I did not, nor is it relevant to me anymore. Also, we cannot conclude from such a number the dismal situation for these graduates: sure some of those 2/3 are under/unemployed, but we don't know how many. How many found more meaningful non-engineering careers? The OSPE had probably the most comprehensive discussion on underemployment in the profession, but still left critical voids that IMO prevent one from coming to a sound conclusion. It never precisely defined 'underemployment' to begin with, nor was it able to ascertain whether the participants chose their non-engineering careers involuntarily.

Mark77, I agree on some of your reasons on their own concering employer behavior, government interference in the labor market, and dismal outlook for certain professions in Canada. They are not lies. In Ottawa, I volunteered as a career mentor at a community organization for nearly four years, and in liasing with employers during that time in that capacity, I can corroborate anecdotally much of what you've stated on this topic. Furthermore, I've met even company hiring managers whose "hands are tied," career coaches, and seasoned HR people who've left the profession (i.e., too expensive to hire as HR drones) who would also agree. But I do disagree when you presistenly and solely attribute jobseekers' failure to be meaningfully employed for those reasons. They are not consistent across the board, and in your case, you have refused to hold yourself accountable. In my case in Ottawa for instance, HR did not decide the job candidate's future at the company--we did; HR handled the hiring logistics and acted in an advisory capacity when it came to certain interview questions.
clseea wrote: Your reading comprehension needs work
Those who don't succumb to your puerile retorts and provocations will always "need to work on their reading comprehension." Your post history indicates a deranged obsession with Mark77: stalking him, harassing him, bullying him, taunting him whenever the opportunity has arisen. It's sad and creepy. And you've been consequently temp-banned before. We can at least confidently agree that, even within the limits imposed by this anonymous forum, he is most certainly not your type madam.
The sea is behind you and the enemy is in front. — Tariq ibn Ziyad
Banned
Jul 3, 2013
1508 posts
300 upvotes
University is still the way to go if you want a higher probability of success. The unfortunate thing is that a university degree alone will not compensate for a woefully incapable candidate.

This is a survivor of the fittest type of world. University will help you in getting near the door, but it is you that will have to bust it wide open.

1. Choose the right major.
2. Rank at the top of your class.
3. Network and be smart in looking for jobs.
4. Always seek to improve.

I have been out of university for a very long time now but not a single year has passed in which I am not taking an education program. Two designations, countless self training programs, and a part time masters program that will start soon.

You are competing with 6 billion people in today's economy. Mediocrity will no longer be rewarded.
Banned
User avatar
Nov 12, 2013
927 posts
209 upvotes
Iceland
FutureCEO wrote: University is still the way to go if you want a higher probability of success. The unfortunate thing is that a university degree alone will not compensate for a woefully incapable candidate.

This is a survivor of the fittest type of world. University will help you in getting near the door, but it is you that will have to bust it wide open.

1. Choose the right major.
2. Rank at the top of your class.
3. Network and be smart in looking for jobs.
4. Always seek to improve.

I have been out of university for a very long time now but not a single year has passed in which I am not taking an education program. Two designations, countless self training programs, and a part time masters program that will start soon.

You are competing with 6 billion people in today's economy. Mediocrity will no longer be rewarded.
That criteria gets rid of about 99% of people. I think that's a little strict my friend.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 26, 2003
39339 posts
6342 upvotes
Winnipeg
Hydropwnics wrote: That criteria gets rid of about 99% of people. I think that's a little strict my friend.
that's why he is CEO
Banned
Jul 3, 2013
1508 posts
300 upvotes
Hydropwnics wrote: That criteria gets rid of about 99% of people. I think that's a little strict my friend.
One can either continue to complain about today's job market or be willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. We each have a choice in life...

I set high goals for myself and have failed often in meeting them. But to me failure is just an opportunity to try again with a vengeance.

There are children working sweat shops in 3rd world countries making pennies. Life in Canada is a joke compared to most places I have lived in.
Deal Addict
User avatar
May 4, 2010
1863 posts
582 upvotes
clseea wrote: ......maybe you should maintain some objectivity and debate the topic at hand instead of making puerile retorts and continual logical fallacies.
clseea wrote: Heed your own advice
tah dah! Don't be a hypocrite.
Banned
User avatar
Nov 12, 2013
927 posts
209 upvotes
Iceland
FutureCEO wrote: One can either continue to complain about today's job market or be willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. We each have a choice in life...

I set high goals for myself and have failed often in meeting them. But to me failure is just an opportunity to try again with a vengeance.

There are children working sweat shops in 3rd world countries making pennies. Life in Canada is a joke compared to most places I have lived in.
Could you be any more cliche?

Yes people work in sweatshops, but is that not also their choice in life? Thus, why are you feeling pity for them, but not people in Canada who live ***** lifestyles.

Do what you gotta do in life to be happy, but striving to be the next CEO ain't for everybody. I'd be quite happy making 150k as a senior mining engineer. Don't need to be the CEO, sure that'd be nice though. But not possible for the vast majority of people who are actually qualified.

All in all, find a job that lets you live the life you wanna live inside and/or outside of work.
Banned
Jul 3, 2013
1508 posts
300 upvotes
Hydropwnics wrote: Could you be any more cliche?

Yes people work in sweatshops, but is that not also their choice in life? Thus, why are you feeling pity for them, but not people in Canada who live ***** lifestyles.

Do what you gotta do in life to be happy, but striving to be the next CEO ain't for everybody. I'd be quite happy making 150k as a senior mining engineer. Don't need to be the CEO, sure that'd be nice though. But not possible for the vast majority of people who are actually qualified.

All in all, find a job that lets you live the life you wanna live inside and/or outside of work.
The opportunity to succeed in Canada is probably a thousand times greater than the third world ***** hole that I came from. Only lazy Canadians with no drive have the audacity to compare how easy things are here to how difficult life is for the majority of the world's population.
Deal Guru
Nov 21, 2011
11402 posts
5239 upvotes
C_C wrote: tah dah! Don't be a hypocrite.
Great. Move on.

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