Ongoing Deal Discussion

NAS Superthread (current deals on NAS devices)

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Apr 21, 2004
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li Arc wrote: I used to run a dedicated PC on old hardware for this, an Athlon 3200+ with 1GB RAM, onboard nVidia video, and 4 USB externals plugged into it, not counting the OS hard drive inside. I kept duplicating my most important files from external to external, with different pieces of important data housed across two different units, staggered across all 4 drives. Eventually, I found this setup ridiculous since everytime I added or removed some important files, I would have to update it across the drives, not to mention there was so much data that I kept losing track of where the data was on which drive. I decided to get the NAS on several bases:

1) Redundancy
2) Power Consumption
3) automation/print server

I am already familiar with 1), having run managed SCSI RAID systems in the past, and the software automation and print server were more nice-to-haves, but what I didn't realize was how significant the power savings were in comparison. Since the switch, I have regularly saved $30-40/month on my electricity bills, which basically paid for the NAS itself within a year. Hence, for the power savings alone, it's worth it. 18-28 watts power consumption on a board without drives isn't as impressive as 13-18 watts power consumption with a single drive, <45W with all 4 drives populated; most of these NAS's are capable of or can exceed that mark. If you go all out and try something like the DS411 slim and use 2.5" drives instead, you'll find the difference staggering.

In the midst of rising energy costs, scarcity of non-renewable energy, and the environmental impact of an ever increasing demand for energy, shouldn't we all do our part to find ways to reduce our energy footprint instead?

li Arc

Thanks for sharing li Arc.

Which is why I drive a 4-cylinder 1.7L car. That's where most of the energy savings is to be made (when filling up).

The Proliant though not as energy saving as your NAS, is much more energy-efficient than many boxes out there. My needs are not that great, simple file server and backup is enough but who knows what I will think of next.
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Jan 20, 2007
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I don't know.. i think I could easily put together an atom-based dual core micro atx with 5 bays or more for significantly less than a synology 1511+ for example.
I could get all the functionality as well..

The biggest problem for me is the amount of continuous time required for the maintenance and upkeep.. always tweaking and updating packages.. I start off excited and full of energy, and at the end, it's just another chore I have to take care of..

In the end, you're trading time for money.. and i already don't have enough hours in the day for myself.. :(
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Jun 8, 2003
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Yes, I'm running SABnzbd, Sickbeard & Transmission on Qnap TS-112 here.
Tha DraGun wrote: Are any of these powerful enough to Run SABnzbd, SickBeard and Couch Potato? Those are the reason my PC is running 24/7.
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Apr 21, 2004
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How is Windows Server 2008 Standard Edition R2 inferior to WHS 2011? Will this be an overkill for a NAS or fileserver? It's free though.

It seems that through Dreamspark (courtesy of Greenmind of Slickdeals), I can get a free copy using my university email address:

https://www.dreamspark.com/

EDIT:

This is interesting to say the least:

Convert your Windows Server 2008 R2 to a Workstation:

http://www.win2008r2workstation.com/

http://www.win2008workstation.com/forum ... =21&t=1230

http://www.win2008workstation.com/forum ... =21&t=2065 --> turn off the music if you dislike it. :)
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Apr 21, 2004
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Menace wrote: Yes, I'm running SABnzbd, Sickbeard & Transmission on Qnap TS-112 here.

For these torrent clients including Couch Potato, can they use fake HTTP header to make use of port 80?
Newbie
Mar 1, 2005
98 posts
9 upvotes
Ottawa
divx wrote: 1. too much hassle
2. costs more
3. uses more power
4. maintenance

Been there done that.. Though I do like to play around. Recently came across OpenMediaVault which is a debian
dist. tailored towards NAS applications and has a much better management interface than say webmin. Never
really liked webmin and was looking for something more integrated.. to reduce the time to manage the
NAS server and web based.

Check it out, might be surprised..
Jr. Member
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Dec 24, 2004
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I have been debating between the QNAP TS-412 and TS-419, and would love any advice. My current plan is to use it as central data for 3 wired desktop computers and varying wireless laptops, although usually only 1 or 2 computers are on at a time. It will also act as print server for these and as a media server to my PS3 via 500M powerline adapter (computer room upstairs and I found wireless wasn't working well - pauses - for streaming so far). Are the added RAM and CPU speed going to be noticeably beneficial? On a side question, with this desired setup, is there a benefit to upgrading my router/accesspoint to gigabit? Thanks.
Member
Mar 28, 2010
236 posts
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Orthonos wrote: I have been debating between the QNAP TS-412 and TS-419, and would love any advice. My current plan is to use it as central data for 3 wired desktop computers and varying wireless laptops, although usually only 1 or 2 computers are on at a time. It will also act as print server for these and as a media server to my PS3 via 500M powerline adapter (computer room upstairs and I found wireless wasn't working well - pauses - for streaming so far). Are the added RAM and CPU speed going to be noticeably beneficial? On a side question, with this desired setup, is there a benefit to upgrading my router/accesspoint to gigabit? Thanks.

I think it comes down to how much you are willing to spend... For your requirements - TS-412 should suffice. However, TS-419 is more powerful and will give you even faster transfer speed. If you want just my 2 cents - I would say TS-412 should serve your purpose and save you some $$$

I was debating between TS-412 and Synology 411J and leaning more towards Qnap
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Nov 21, 2002
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ok here's a interesting article comparing with pretty current desktop configs(chipsets) that could be be used as viable nas alternatives vs 4bay and up standalone boxes. In particular here is the page concerning power consumption. tested were e-350,ion i3k etc.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0

other things that should be consider are:

1)the hard drive used in the test were ssd= which could = a usb for say free nas and is like a watt for overall power consumption. So it equates to rougly the whole system minus a 3.5 inch drive. For home nas consideration using green/eco drives wattage idle would be around an extra 4w per drive and upto 8w inuse. A factor that any nas can't really get around so we'll consider that mute, and will vary to drives used.

2) the test bed used 4gb of 2x2 ram. Alternatives, well 1 stick uses less wattage, smaller/slower sizes uses less volts/wattage. So you would pick the bare min for your needs. Would you need more than 2gb stick, argueably not with most standalones only offerring 1gb at most for highend and as low as 64 megs on older models. Roughly say per stick diferences like 1w idle 4w in use, under volting and slower speeds for a nas too could be consider= less watts as well.

3) they used an 880w 80% green. while most standalone 4bays will use a dc power brick at like 95% efficiency. Here you see big savings. So you should really consider a pico for a home built nas. You'll need to google pico power consumption to see the savings.

4) even the onboard nic can drop you down. In this test bed they used onboard, but I know onboard nics vary in performance and power consumption. Basically they draw around 4w, but I know of an intel nic for 30 bucks that draws under 2w. Most won't go this route for cost savings.

Now lets compare to the flavours of 2 and 4 bay marvel chipset mostly used.

500mhz to 800 mhz idle(drives are powered down)= 5-6w
1.0 to 1.2ghz= 7-8w
1.5ghz to 2.0 8-10w

remember these are all single core with 256-1gb nand ram. The next gen dual cores with add another 4w. That would mean zero difference

Really theirs not much of a difference idle and cost for what you could build today. Infact you'll see energy savings by what it can do faster vs running longer. That of course depends on the user, and he/she should research needs and wants first. Secondly and most importanty is the transcoding capability that the home build will offer vs any affordable nas. They'll be none on the standalone, the ones that do, cost expontentially more and are basically using more juice that what you could pick and choose yourself in a build. For example google plex for standalone nas's. Plex is an awesome mediaserver, available for standalones only on the intel chip based ones. Maybe in the future for arm. But their be no transcoding!!!

For 150-180 I'd still recommend a synology or for 80 bucks a dns320 etc. But when you get over 400 I'd really think about applying your self for a home build especially if its just for a home server.
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May 29, 2003
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For anyone that's thinking about turning a older pc, or building a NAS from ground up, check out FreeNAS or OpenFiler.

I just built my own NAS using mini ITX board, Lian Li Q08B + other few basic components + 5x 1.5TB Drives using FreeNAS. It's running in ZFS. I couldn't be happier. I had a Thecus before, and find that you are largely depending on the NAS maker for any software updates/bug fixes, or to resolve any hardware issue (without opening up the NAS and repair yourself).

FreeNAS is OpenBSD/Linux, and I maintain my own hardware. I feel that my data is safer if anything were to go wrong, in the sense that I would be at least able to do some troubleshooting/repair attempts myself on the software or hardware level. With that said, I like the idea of being able to buy a plug and play NAS off the shelf as well for the convenience but do take a look at other options, for example, using existing computer parts.
Deal Expert
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Apr 21, 2004
58648 posts
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lead wrote: ok here's a interesting article comparing with pretty current desktop configs(chipsets) that could be be used as viable nas alternatives vs 4bay and up standalone boxes. In particular here is the page concerning power consumption. tested were e-350,ion i3k etc.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0

other things that should be consider are:

1)the hard drive used in the test were ssd= which could = a usb for say free nas and is like a watt for overall power consumption. So it equates to rougly the whole system minus a 3.5 inch drive. For home nas consideration using green/eco drives wattage idle would be around an extra 4w per drive and upto 8w inuse. A factor that any nas can't really get around so we'll consider that mute, and will vary to drives used.

2) the test bed used 4gb of 2x2 ram. Alternatives, well 1 stick uses less wattage, smaller/slower sizes uses less volts/wattage. So you would pick the bare min for your needs. Would you need more than 2gb stick, argueably not with most standalones only offerring 1gb at most for highend and as low as 64 megs on older models. Roughly say per stick diferences like 1w idle 4w in use, under volting and slower speeds for a nas too could be consider= less watts as well.

3) they used an 880w 80% green. while most standalone 4bays will use a dc power brick at like 95% efficiency. Here you see big savings. So you should really consider a pico for a home built nas. You'll need to google pico power consumption to see the savings.

4) even the onboard nic can drop you down. In this test bed they used onboard, but I know onboard nics vary in performance and power consumption. Basically they draw around 4w, but I know of an intel nic for 30 bucks that draws under 2w. Most won't go this route for cost savings.

Now lets compare to the flavours of 2 and 4 bay marvel chipset mostly used.

500mhz to 800 mhz idle(drives are powered down)= 5-6w
1.0 to 1.2ghz= 7-8w
1.5ghz to 2.0 8-10w

remember these are all single core with 256-1gb nand ram. The next gen dual cores with add another 4w. That would mean zero difference

Really theirs not much of a difference idle and cost for what you could build today. Infact you'll see energy savings by what it can do faster vs running longer. That of course depends on the user, and he/she should research needs and wants first. Secondly and most importanty is the transcoding capability that the home build will offer vs any affordable nas. They'll be none on the standalone, the ones that do, cost expontentially more and are basically using more juice that what you could pick and choose yourself in a build. For example google plex for standalone nas's. Plex is an awesome mediaserver, available for standalones only on the intel chip based ones. Maybe in the future for arm. But their be no transcoding!!!

For 150-180 I'd still recommend a synology or for 80 bucks a dns320 etc. But when you get over 400 I'd really think about applying your self for a home build especially if its just for a home server.

Thanks for sharing your input Lead.

I did consider buying a 4-bay NAS but yes, $400-500 was hard to swallow, especially with the hardware specs of these NASes, and because I will likely only use a limited number of reatures. It's the software side where the Synology and Qnap shine and that's what consumers are paying. I can't believe those USB 3.0 ports that come with these NAS has the same throughput/speed as a USB 2.0 port found on older netbooks/laptop/desktop pc's. There's not much room for expandability, unless one is willing to pay $100-150/ SATA using and expansion slot/

Since you have been one of the most helpful on the thread, for someone who doesn't have time to learn programming, and had already successfully ordered this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6859107052

Should I go the WHS 2011 route or get this version of Windows Server 2008?

http://www.win2008workstation.com/forum ... =21&t=1230


Maybe I ask to much on RFD ( though I do share some deals or tricks I find about too :( ) but so far, no one running WHS 2011 or Windows Server 2008 have shared his/her experiencing running SABnzbd, SickBeard, Transmission and Couch Potato and if it is at all possible. Would you happen to know?

This workstation version actually allows for a lot of applications to run, so it got me thinking that maybe I should opt for this version instead and then run applications on the server just like I would my regular pc.

I simply don't have time to learn Linux at the moment but will be willing down the road.

Thanks for any thoughts on WHS 2011 / Windows Server 2008 / Windows Server 2008 Workstation version and why should I take this route instead of just installing Windows 7 on the server? I don't have more than 10 computers/devices at home.


As I've mentioned and found out just this morning, for those of you who still have valid school emails, you can use dreamspark to get a product key for Windows Server 2008.
Newbie
Mar 1, 2005
98 posts
9 upvotes
Ottawa
cy wrote: For anyone that's thinking about turning a older pc, or building a NAS from ground up, check out FreeNAS or OpenFiler.

I just built my own NAS using mini ITX board, Lian Li Q08B + other few basic components + 5x 1.5TB Drives using FreeNAS. It's running in ZFS. I couldn't be happier. I had a Thecus before, and find that you are largely depending on the NAS maker for any software updates/bug fixes, or to resolve any hardware issue (without opening up the NAS and repair yourself).

FreeNAS is OpenBSD/Linux, and I maintain my own hardware. I feel that my data is safer if anything were to go wrong, in the sense that I would be at least able to do some troubleshooting/repair attempts myself on the software or hardware level. With that said, I like the idea of being able to buy a plug and play NAS off the shelf as well for the convenience but do take a look at other options, for example, using existing computer parts.

Just some thoughts..
Indeed FreeNas and Openfiler are very popular. One thing I found with FreeNas & OpenFiler is the hardware support is somewhat limited so re-cycling old hardware or new mini-ITX builds may narrow choice. ZFS is lightning fast.. not too sure about "data portability" though.. such as a HW component (non disk) failing and one needed to get at their data. With the traditional non BSD software RAID choices, it's pretty easy, boot up on another box and you're data is readily available after discovering the RAID array. Not sure how easy that would be with FreeNas and ZFS.. Nothing wrong with either of those solutions and I'd probably try both out if my existing mini-ITX MB was supported.
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Jun 8, 2003
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No, I don't think so.
alanbrenton wrote: For these torrent clients including Couch Potato, can they use fake HTTP header to make use of port 80?
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May 29, 2003
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hdefjunkie wrote: Just some thoughts..
Indeed FreeNas and Openfiler are very popular. One thing I found with FreeNas & OpenFiler is the hardware support is somewhat limited so re-cycling old hardware or new mini-ITX builds may narrow choice. ZFS is lightning fast.. not too sure about "data portability" though.. such as a HW component (non disk) failing and one needed to get at their data. With the traditional non BSD software RAID choices, it's pretty easy, boot up on another box and you're data is readily available after discovering the RAID array. Not sure how easy that would be with FreeNas and ZFS.. Nothing wrong with either of those solutions and I'd probably try both out if my existing mini-ITX MB was supported.

Good point. I took a look and there's a large list of supported hardware, it's safe to say that 90-95% of the modern hardware would be supported. If you have a spare PC around, it only takes 20 minutes to stick it on and try! I currently run FreeNAS off a USB drive, so the OS doesn't reside on the actual ZFS Array. It works flawless, handles my SMB/CIFS shares, HTTP, FTP and Torrenting very nicely!

Software RAID indeed (Raid 5 for instance) can be recovered using another setup, however hardware RAID would run into the issue where you need the identical controller. For ZFS, if by any chance the FreeNAS hardware/software is corrupted, you can just stick the drive setup to another box with FreeNAS or Linux distro, you should be good to go. The fault tolerant for ZFS in Raid-Z is also one drive and the rebuild time are generally quicker than of Raid5.

BTW, no Linux experience is required to setup FreeNAS or Openfiler.
Member
Mar 28, 2010
236 posts
30 upvotes
Does anyone know if hard drives of different make and model can be used in QNAP TS-412? I'm thinking of getting this unit but with only one 2TB drive as the money is tight :cry:

Eventually I will fill up the bays with other hard drives but just wondering if it will be a problem if I put different brand hard drives!
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Nov 21, 2002
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cerebrous wrote: NAS pros

Can you comment on the value of this unit???

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=60865 ... omoid=1375

$199 after rebate
and 4 bay
supposeably just a rebadged Promise SmartStor NS4600. So its software support would not compare to others in its class and the 100 rebate is kinda scary, plus your paying tax on the the full 300 vs 200.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/networ ... s4600.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/networ ... in-s4.html


rhassan wrote: Does anyone know if hard drives of different make and model can be used in QNAP TS-412? I'm thinking of getting this unit but with only one 2TB drive as the money is tight :cry:

Eventually I will fill up the bays with other hard drives but just wondering if it will be a problem if I put different brand hard drives!

right now i'd say the hitachi 5k3000 is going for 99 somewhere posted in rfd hotdeals. I use it and samsung f4's and f3's in my dns's
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Sep 4, 2002
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Markham
cy wrote: For anyone that's thinking about turning a older pc, or building a NAS from ground up, check out FreeNAS or OpenFiler.

I just built my own NAS using mini ITX board, Lian Li Q08B + other few basic components + 5x 1.5TB Drives using FreeNAS. It's running in ZFS. I couldn't be happier. I had a Thecus before, and find that you are largely depending on the NAS maker for any software updates/bug fixes, or to resolve any hardware issue (without opening up the NAS and repair yourself).

FreeNAS is OpenBSD/Linux, and I maintain my own hardware. I feel that my data is safer if anything were to go wrong, in the sense that I would be at least able to do some troubleshooting/repair attempts myself on the software or hardware level. With that said, I like the idea of being able to buy a plug and play NAS off the shelf as well for the convenience but do take a look at other options, for example, using existing computer parts.


Which version of Freenas are you running? Also, what is the performance like?

I previously tried an older version but found the performance lacking. I'm now looking at either the Synology DS-212+ or Qnap TS-219P II but if the newer versions of Freenas provide similar performance then I may give it another try. :)
Member
Mar 28, 2010
236 posts
30 upvotes
lead wrote:
right now i'd say the hitachi 5k3000 is going for 99 somewhere posted in rfd hotdeals. I use it and samsung f4's and f3's in my dns's

Yeah - I saw that but backed off due to terrible reviews of that hard drive. Looked like almost everyone who reviewed on the sites had their units failed.

I am leaning towards Seagate Barracuda 2TB for $159 for now and keep an eye on sales
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Nov 21, 2002
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rhassan wrote: Yeah - I saw that but backed off due to terrible reviews of that hard drive. Looked like almost everyone who reviewed on the sites had their units failed.

I am leaning towards Seagate Barracuda 2TB for $159 for now and keep an eye on sales
i've had 2 for a year, from reading the hands on newegg it seems the ones that conked did so after the firt couple of months, so i'd gather its clearly a qc issue and unfortunately seagate has for awhile now had a qc issue too. Seagates have been the only brand I have had to rma in the last couple of years and with them dropping their warranty from 5 to 3 to 2yrs. I couldn't recommend them, since seagate has clearly lost confidence in them, themselves. The sammies are good but pricey and the wd have a great rma but the greens are finniky.

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