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National Home Services - Water Heater

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Apr 13, 2009
3874 posts
109 upvotes
Toronto
jessiejames wrote:
Jan 24th, 2011 1:09 pm
I got one too. It only makes sense. Mine was only 3 years old. I got 2 months free that saved me about $50.00 right of the bat. It burns like 25 to 30% less gas so I save money there too and I like the fact that they maintain my water heater every five years. I've been with Direct energy and my mother and brother were with Reliance. None of these companies have ever drained my water or anything like that. I'm in construction and understand that it's very important to do if you want clean water and it keeps it running at it's highest efficiency. Also there both foreign companies (direct energy is British) and they just bought the tanks from embridge and never even saw the water heaters. They just rent them to us. Same with (Reliance a American). I'm Canadian and National home services is a Canadian company so the money stays in Canada. Plus there is no rental control so with Direct and Reliance the bills go up 10 or 15% every year and at least National caps them at 3.5%. And again I got an extra 4 months free for referring my mom and brother on top of my original 2 free months. What other company will do that and I could keep referring people and get more free months. The small extra cost for the peace of mind I have is well worth it. I could keep my old tank by why pay ruffly the same for a standard product and 3 day responses when I have the best product and 1 to 4 hour response and their actually friendly.
Wow, you're really pitching NHS. You wouldn't happen to work for them would you? I do see that you're a noob with 1 post.

Welcome to RFD by the way.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 18, 2005
15238 posts
529 upvotes
Niagara Falls
alamshahid wrote:
Feb 16th, 2011 5:45 pm
Crap these people just came to my house and my wife signed a document to get a new water heater....arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I better get home and call them asap to cancel...

don't be too concerned. They still have to call you and get permission again. I'd call them tonight anyways to be safe but they are just going to tell you its not in their system yet.
HEATWARE (21 - 0) - evilbaby
Member
Jul 20, 2007
275 posts
34 upvotes
I signed one last summer too - I only agreed if the vent pipe installation would not disturb the drywall ceiling part of the basement (the rest were drop ceiling).

The day that they came and was about to install, my wife was at home and they said they will have to cut two holes in the ceiling area. They said they'll cover it up with vent grill.

I said, that doesn't make sense since there isn't a vent there. I'd only agree if you patch it up with drywall again. They said they can't.

I cancelled the contract there.

They also told me that the PVC pipe that is being used by the builder was not 'safe' and could crack and allow carbon monoxide to leak into the house (not sure if that's true or not).

Anyway, I'm just staying with the current rental agreement that I have when I first bought the home from the builder (direct energy).
Sr. Member
Oct 7, 2009
810 posts
48 upvotes
jessiejames wrote:
Jan 24th, 2011 1:09 pm
I got one too. It only makes sense. Mine was only 3 years old. I got 2 months free that saved me about $50.00 right of the bat. It burns like 25 to 30% less gas so I save money there too and I like the fact that they maintain my water heater every five years. I've been with Direct energy and my mother and brother were with Reliance. None of these companies have ever drained my water or anything like that. I'm in construction and understand that it's very important to do if you want clean water and it keeps it running at it's highest efficiency. Also there both foreign companies (direct energy is British) and they just bought the tanks from embridge and never even saw the water heaters. They just rent them to us. Same with (Reliance a American). I'm Canadian and National home services is a Canadian company so the money stays in Canada. Plus there is no rental control so with Direct and Reliance the bills go up 10 or 15% every year and at least National caps them at 3.5%. And again I got an extra 4 months free for referring my mom and brother on top of my original 2 free months. What other company will do that and I could keep referring people and get more free months. The small extra cost for the peace of mind I have is well worth it. I could keep my old tank by why pay ruffly the same for a standard product and 3 day responses when I have the best product and 1 to 4 hour response and their actually friendly.

Are you ****ing serious?
Member
Dec 16, 2006
368 posts
25 upvotes
North of Toronto
Therion wrote:
Feb 17th, 2011 5:56 pm
Are you ****ing serious?

Of course he's serious.

That's his job.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 8, 2002
3453 posts
434 upvotes
Ottawa
Renting a hot water heater at $26 per month including HST, over 15 years, with a modest 3% annual increase to the rental fee, will cost you $5800! If you exclude inflation, the 15 year cost is $4600.

Now tell me that renting a hot water heater is a great deal. NOT.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 27, 2007
2276 posts
87 upvotes
I am soooo glad I did a google search and RFD came up......

These guys are a scam! National Home Services is a scam. If you google "National Home Services Scam" CBC did a report on them.


These guys will tell you that your water heater is old and needs to be replaced, and that the exhaust pipe will leak carbon monoxide, and that your current set up isn't up to building code and they have to shut it down ASAP (which is ridiculous because my house is a new build < 10 years old).


These guys are scammers, one agent shows up to sell, another to install the next day. They drive around in a mini cube van with a sticker on the side that says National Home Services.

DO NOT LET THEM SCAM YOU!!! DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!



on a side note: HOW CAN THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT ALLOW THESE CREEPS TO OPERATE FREELY?!?!?! THIS IS CANADA, NOT NIGERIAN EBAY BUYERS WHO JUST WANT TO SAVE THEIR NEIGHBORS DAUGHTER IN LAW
Newbie
Mar 6, 2011
1 posts
Ottawa
I too got solicited at the door and did sign up. I came across this forum and quickly cancelled. I'm pretty sure I made the right decision (at least the second one), but it got me wondering..

They offered me $13.99/month for a 60-gallon new energy saver hotwater tank rental (I have an electic waterheater), first two months free.
Contract terms say only a maximum 3.5% increase per year
Free install and removal of the old tank
I currently pay about $26, but recently got a love letter from Reliance announcing a rate hike to $28.69/month

I am wondering if they actually deliver on this?
Is there a catch or a hidden fee/
Has anyone actually switched to them or another company?

I am just talking brass tax numbers here. I too hate the door-to-door pressure pitch, but the cost differential is quite high...

Thanks!

Ed
Deal Addict
Nov 30, 2003
1602 posts
192 upvotes
smashedbanana wrote:
Mar 7th, 2011 12:58 am
I too got solicited at the door and did sign up. I came across this forum and quickly cancelled. I'm pretty sure I made the right decision (at least the second one), but it got me wondering..

They offered me $13.99/month for a 60-gallon new energy saver hotwater tank rental (I have an electic waterheater), first two months free.
Contract terms say only a maximum 3.5% increase per year
Free install and removal of the old tank
I currently pay about $26, but recently got a love letter from Reliance announcing a rate hike to $28.69/month

I am wondering if they actually deliver on this?
Is there a catch or a hidden fee/
Has anyone actually switched to them or another company?

I am just talking brass tax numbers here. I too hate the door-to-door pressure pitch, but the cost differential is quite high...

Thanks!

Ed

Ask NHS how long the contract is that they put you in, and what are the conditions to get out of it

Then you will find out where the catch is
Newbie
Mar 28, 2009
5 posts
Ottawa
bpopd wrote:
Feb 3rd, 2009 12:37 am
Oye... Yeah the fact of the matter is that the water heaters are simple in design, and really don't break down. The pipes that connect to the heater may break, but otherwise, the chances are slim.
Absolutely true. I have a 40gal SELF INSTALLED tank that I bought in 2000 and it is still going strong..ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS WITH IT and NOW
It's now 11 years old. It's a GE self cleaning that came with a prorated 9 yr warranty. Am I worried that the "prorated warranty" has expired?
Absolutely not! It's in the basement with a floor drain. I have two shutoff valves above it..should the day ever come that it springs a leak..I simply shut
off the cold and hot valves and go to my neighborhood H-D or Lowes and get them to deliver another and self install it again.

Cost of the tank in 2000..just a bit over $400. Cost of the same brand/type today..just over $600. Savings realized over 10years of usage and NOT PAYING RENT to Enbridge + HST/GST to the Ontario gov't.. WELL over $1500 in MY POCKET!
The whole idea of renting this water heater is just ridiculous. The water heater that this company wants to give you is worth about $1500... and they put you on a contract for approximately 13-15yrs. (At 13yrs, you can issue a change for a new water heater, as a part of their service).
One of those National Home** scam artists came to my house today, but as soon as he opened his mouth about "upgrades to my hwt"..
I told him I wasn't interested.
The cost per month is $24.25, and over the course of 13 yrs, you end up paying $3783. That's more than double the cost of the water heater itself.
NHS reps come to you house, wanting you to sign the contract, offering their services to you for free as long as you rent. However, the fact is...in their service, all they offer you is 2 cleanings of your new water heater within the 15yr time span, and they offer you warranty service if anything fails...
What is going to fail on these? Gas valve is the most reliable type used. If you have the one with the pilot you have to light (as mine is) there is no electric wiring required, Sacrificial anode may need replacing in 15 years..maybe, but basically unless you have the power ventor type. there isn't any maintenance required on these.
Now this may seem great and all, but the fact is, water heaters last a long time, and failures are very rare. Even if it does fail, it wont fail completely, you'll just see a gradual loss of hot water over time, due to *leaks in your pipes*.
Leaks in your pipes? If you have properly soldered copper pipes, they don't corrode.
The only piece of pipe that may corrode over time is the piece of threaded 3/4" steel pipe that screws into the tank and you solder your copper pipes to that (through a brass threaded adapter). If yours has brass 3/4" fittings, then you don't even have to worry about those.
Copper pipes don't normally fail unless you do something to them yourself..like yanking on them or drilling through one by accident.

If by some chance in the 12 to 18 yr period of the lifetime of your tank, you notice a small leak under the tank,
the tank may have rusted through at some place, but it is going to be a MINOR leak .Lots of warning time to replace it.
Tanks don't burst and flood the entire basement..this is a fallacy if they tell you that.
Now my point of coming back here to post is to mention the TANKLESS systems, and how they are much better for saving energy.
Normally the water heaters that come with your house/apartment comes with a tank that stores water, and boils it 24hrs/day everyday, all day... This water is usually a large amount, roughly in the 50-60gal range. So imagine the amount of energy used to boil that much water all day, every day, even if you don't use your hot water!? Thats alot of energy. How much do you use during the course of a day? at most 2hrs of hot water? thats 22hrs of wasted hot water boiling.
My hwt doesn 'boil". If I run some hot water out of it, the thermostat on the gas valve (the one you adjust the temp with the blue wheel)
just comes on for a wee bit until the cold water that just ran in... gets heated up to temperature.
The tankless system works based on demand... so basically the moment you turn on the tap, the moment the water goes through the tankless system, instantly boiling, and coming out of your taps. There is no tank *duh*, so you don't store any water for boiling. And once you turn it off, thats it. It doesn't continue boiling or anything, it just turns off. It only activates based on your usage of hot water, so its really efficient.
Well it may be efficient when it gets up to speed, but the first few litres coming out of your tap (if you haven't used the tap in a while),
will still be cold water sitting in the HOT water line ( hot water that has lost it's heat inside your house, because water in copper lines loses heat
even with pipe wrap), until the heater has a chance to heat it up to temp.
So unless you are using lots of hot water, there isn't really any huge energy savings either. 25% to 33%?? more efficient Perhaps someone can prove those claims...personally I don't believe it.

The downside is the purchase price. The purchase price is $2200 for the tankless system, but you save a heck of a lot more energy,
thus saving you money in the long term.
Ouch! and don't forget that you may have to change some copper plumbing if the runs to the tank are only 1/2" copper.
The tankless demand type require a minimum flow rate to work proper..unlike a tank hwt..which doesn't care about that..you can run a trickle,
or a lot of hot water on the tank type, it doesn't care.

So unless you are a handy DIY'er type that can modify and replace copper pipes, calling in a plumbing contractore is not going to be cheap
and in the end negate any savings on energy that the tankles heater will give you..because of the extra cost of installation on top of the
cost of the tankless heater.

I looked into this and basically because of the high cost right now..most people are not going to save anything over the tank style water heaters by installing one of these tankless in the first few years. It's just another sales opportunity "bandwagon" these days.

Just go to a neighborhood plumbing store and get a nice insulation blanket to wrap around your hwt,
and you will save heat loss from your tank and in the end..it won't cost you as much as converting to these "high efficiency" types,
and "line someone else's pocket" with your hard earned after tax dollars.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jan 27, 2008
759 posts
112 upvotes
Toronto
I just signed up initially and cancelled as well. I don't think they are necessarily "scamming" people, but they are very aggressive in their tactics and use things like limiting your decision time to get their service installed. If it were a scam they would be breaking the law, or not providing you with services down the road, etc etc. Or they could be misrepresenting themselves or outright lying. The person I dealt with didn't really misrepresent himself, but spoke and moved very quickly so it's very easy for someone to be overwhelmed and simply go with the flow (pun intended).

So for anyone else who is confused by all this, here is what I learned:

1. When I bought my house, I went into a rental agreement with Direct Energy for my hot water tank. There is no "contract", i.e. I can switch providers anytime, or opt to buy out my HWT.
2. National (NHS) comes by and exploits the fact that I have no contract with Direct Energy, and dangles a carrot (2 free months, more efficient HWT).
3. When you sign up with NHS, you enter into a contract for the working life of your HWT. which could be 12 years! If you cancel in this time, you will incur penalties or fees. However if your HWT breaks in a few years, then you are out of your contract with them and can go with someone else, renew, or buy your own.

Going with NHS may be a good move for some people (e.g. if you need a new tank immediately and current provider won't replace for you, and you can't afford to buy one). BUT you should have all the facts first. And remember you have 10 days after you sign the contract to call and cancel (Not sure if you get charged to cancel after the new HWT is installed though).

Relevant links:
http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-r ... on-1174972
http://www.thestar.com/business/article ... ater-fraud
Newbie
Mar 28, 2011
1 posts
ottawa
Most people rent water heaters in ontario for convenience. I replaced my water heater with National to a Tankless. I love it. I had read many things about national saying it is a scam and what not, but enbridge verified that they are a rental company and I have had no issues. I see no scam. I am choosing to rent because I do not want to lift a finger other than the one that dials the number to have these guys fix if necessary. Whats the scam that I am hearing about?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 27, 2007
2276 posts
87 upvotes
Bruinfan wrote:
Mar 29th, 2011 11:17 am
Most people rent water heaters in ontario for convenience. I replaced my water heater with National to a Tankless. I love it. I had read many things about national saying it is a scam and what not, but enbridge verified that they are a rental company and I have had no issues. I see no scam. I am choosing to rent because I do not want to lift a finger other than the one that dials the number to have these guys fix if necessary. Whats the scam that I am hearing about?

The scam is you. People like you, who are employed or affiliated with National Home Service, who feel the need to join online forums, and make a post regarding how amazing National is. Do you really think we're stupid? You only have one post, and joined today.

A good company, with a good reputation, would not have to resort to such disgusting tactics to try and soften their obvious tainted public image.

Please keep making new accounts and posting, because it only reinforces what kind of a company National is.
Deal Addict
Mar 27, 2011
1281 posts
89 upvotes
Nowhere
Renting a hot water heater is a ridiculous waste of money.

We had those NHS people come to our door just the other day telling us our HWT was rented. What a douchebag. We bought the house 2 months ago with a tankless on demand hot water unit. It was entirely paid for by previous owners.

However, no offence to anyone here, but don't spur of the moment buy stuff from a door to door salesman. I don't like saying something is common sense, but do some research. I am constantly amazed by how little people research into major expenses (be it TVs, appliances, furnaces, cars).
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