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National Home Services - Water Heater

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Deal Expert
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May 10, 2005
24879 posts
2465 upvotes
Ottawa
bpopd wrote:
Feb 3rd, 2009 3:37 pm
Pete_Coach,
This is not your thread either. Are you telling me to not bother posting since the information was out there already?

I noticed you lost your debate on this thread
.
Huh? Debate?
It was your bump of a NHS topic that resurrected this thread. Only stated that you regurgitated old tankless info?
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jul 4, 2004
6914 posts
340 upvotes
Anonymouse wrote:
Dec 17th, 2008 9:00 am
That new water heater, which is worth about $1500 installed, is going to cost you $4365 over the 15 year term. If you intend to stay in the house for at least 5 years, you're better off buying one yourself. If you know for sure you'll be moving before then, and there aren't any onerous termination clauses when you sell the house, by all means rent.
Good advice.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jul 4, 2004
6914 posts
340 upvotes
3weddings wrote:
Jan 15th, 2009 11:45 am
Great thread....as I sit here deciding whether to buy or rent.

We are leaning toward renting for this house we are about to put on the market, since we won't be here for long and the contract is transerable.


http://www.pdmsince1885.com/top10-plumbing.htm
Hopefully a smart buyer won't force this as a condition on the sale but it is a good move to wait and see if they will catch it or not. I hate how when you buy a new home in Ontario, most builders have a rented tank installed and of course tell you only when you are preparing the agreement of purchase and sale.
Newbie
Jul 6, 2007
23 posts
1 upvote
Oshawa
National Home Services just came to my door. He said they were replacing all of the water heaters in our complex, as they are all over 10 years old. It was a free installation, and was through Enbridge and everything had been arranged. He made it sound like Enbridge had sent them, and they were my currently supplier.

He asked to see my bill so he could determine what size tank I had. I grabbed my bill, and asked where it would say what size the tank was (I was not about to hand over the bill with my personal information). He said he just needed my Enbridge account number, and they would call next week to set up our appointment. I asked if I could call Enbridge first because I had received no notice from them that someone would be coming. He said I could but they were here now, so i should give him my account number and the exact name on the bill and call Enbridge later. I told him that I'm sure he could appreciate that I didn't want to give my info to some guy that just showed up at my door. He said that he already had all my information, he just needed the account number. Well, my address is on the front of my house, and I have a computer with a reverse directory too, so he didn't really have anything 'secret'. I told him I would call him if I felt I needed his services. He left me with a flyer and told me to check out the website for a demonstration of the black sludge that is sitting at the bottom of my tank (can you say last ditch scare tactic?)

I just checked my water heater, and although the date is hard to read, it was installed in either 01 or 07, so at most it is 8 years old. I called Enbridge, and as it turns out my supplier is Direct Energy. I have no issue with them or my water heater so far (just moved into our home in Sept) and pay $13 a month. They told me that NHS was a competitor that wanted to lock me into a 15 year contract, and that their monthly fees may be higher. Direct Energy will not send someone to my door unannounced. If I have a concern, I contact them and they will send out a technician.

In any case, the moral of the story is don't get sucked in by anyone who knocks on your door. As with any decision, walk away and think it through. It's not likely they're going to turn your business away later because you didn't sign up right then and there. Maybe NHS is in fact a better service, but because I feel they tried to pressure (scam) me into signing up with them, I will never know and they will never have my business.

It's a good thing it was me and not my husband or we'd be SOL right now! lol...
Deal Expert
User avatar
May 10, 2005
24879 posts
2465 upvotes
Ottawa
trini1313 wrote:
Feb 7th, 2009 3:23 pm
National Home Services just came to my door. He said they were replacing all of the water heaters in our complex, as they are all over 10 years old. It was a free installation, and was through Enbridge and everything had been arranged. He made it sound like Enbridge had sent them, and they were my currently supplier.

He asked to see my bill so he could determine what size tank I had. I grabbed my bill, and asked where it would say what size the tank was (I was not about to hand over the bill with my personal information). He said he just needed my Enbridge account number, and they would call next week to set up our appointment. I asked if I could call Enbridge first because I had received no notice from them that someone would be coming. He said I could but they were here now, so i should give him my account number and the exact name on the bill and call Enbridge later. I told him that I'm sure he could appreciate that I didn't want to give my info to some guy that just showed up at my door. He said that he already had all my information, he just needed the account number. Well, my address is on the front of my house, and I have a computer with a reverse directory too, so he didn't really have anything 'secret'. I told him I would call him if I felt I needed his services. He left me with a flyer and told me to check out the website for a demonstration of the black sludge that is sitting at the bottom of my tank (can you say last ditch scare tactic?)

I just checked my water heater, and although the date is hard to read, it was installed in either 01 or 07, so at most it is 8 years old. I called Enbridge, and as it turns out my supplier is Direct Energy. I have no issue with them or my water heater so far (just moved into our home in Sept) and pay $13 a month. They told me that NHS was a competitor that wanted to lock me into a 15 year contract, and that their monthly fees may be higher. Direct Energy will not send someone to my door unannounced. If I have a concern, I contact them and they will send out a technician.

In any case, the moral of the story is don't get sucked in by anyone who knocks on your door. As with any decision, walk away and think it through. It's not likely they're going to turn your business away later because you didn't sign up right then and there. Maybe NHS is in fact a better service, but because I feel they tried to pressure (scam) me into signing up with them, I will never know and they will never have my business.

It's a good thing it was me and not my husband or we'd be SOL right now! lol...
Good on you for doing all the right things. :cheesygri
Newbie
User avatar
Sep 20, 2006
16 posts
1 upvote
I, too, had someone from National Home Services knocking on my door today.

He was quite pushy as well. I told him I'd contact him if I was interested, as I wanted to do some research and think about it. He left me a flyer reluctantly as I wouldn't sign up.

Then my search on google brought me to RedFlags! The guy talked about a 15year warranty, not a 15 year contract. I know I will not be signing any contract.

Thanks for posting your experiences and comments - they were very much appreciated.
Newbie
Feb 27, 2009
2 posts
Mississauga
br0pbr0p wrote:
Dec 16th, 2008 10:02 pm
Hi

Just tonight, an agent from National Home Service - Water Heater Division came by to check my water heater. He said since it is 10 years old, I should probably change it. So then he explains how National will replace mine with a high efficiency model with $0 installation fee but a slight increase to my monthly rental charge (to $24.25). They will also return my existing one to Direct Energy and there will be no charge to me.

Anyone have experience with this? I can't find much information on Google so I figure I will give RFD a try. I am not very familiar with water heaters, so if anyone can share their insights, that will be great. My biggest concern is that this agreement is for a 15 year term.

Thanks
Hey there I just suckered myself into this contract too, Being a new homeowner it is hard to be familiar with services for our utilities because someone is always trying to mislead us or convince us differently, but that is how our society works. If you read the contract agreement on the back of the yellow copy he gave you, in the bottom of the left hand corner you will find the "rights under the consumer protection act" and it clearly states you can cancel this contract within ten days and with no explanation. You also can cancel within 30 days prior to the installation. This is a giant scam and I am going to send you a link from the Toronto Star discussing this matter.

I will be calling tommorrow to cancel this agreement at10:00 AM
http://www.thestar.com/article/463378

You can fool me once but don't fool me twice
Deal Addict
Jul 16, 2005
3395 posts
188 upvotes
Toronto
My family's supplier is Direct Energy. Our water tank was replaced 1 or 2 years ago by Direct Energy. It was free of charge since we rent it from them. From this thread it seems like it would be cheaper if we buy our own water heater instead of renting. Since we only recently got it replaced what would be the better options now? Still rent it from DE or buy and install our own? I'm not sure what will happened with Direct Energy if we buy our own. I'll have to check if we are on any kind of contract.
Newbie
Feb 27, 2009
2 posts
Mississauga
Matryx wrote:
Feb 28th, 2009 8:33 pm
My family's supplier is Direct Energy. Our water tank was replaced 1 or 2 years ago by Direct Energy. It was free of charge since we rent it from them. From this thread it seems like it would be cheaper if we buy our own water heater instead of renting. Since we only recently got it replaced what would be the better options now? Still rent it from DE or buy and install our own? I'm not sure what will happened with Direct Energy if we buy our own. I'll have to check if we are on any kind of contract.
My opinion is...

If you rent it you are secure from repair and replacement costs, when they arise, but if you buy it, how much will it cost you to buy and repair it when needed, as well as what will the cost be to replace it when it is old and broken?

Review the cost for both options then make your decision
Jr. Member
User avatar
Jan 24, 2004
187 posts
got a similar visit by National Home services yesterday,...the tank comparison seemed to make sense, glass vs metal liner, and also he was mentioning that their tank is Energy star rated, and this will allow for a tax credit....

these are things that I choose to review and do comparisons.

Some good sale points he mentioned are that if you already have the pre-requisite pipes you can save $2 off the rental rate of 24.xx to 22.xx. also there is an energy savings associated with the new tanks that should save 30% off of usage costs of natural gas. Once again, things I have to research...

did any one else get this type of information or have more information on this?
Newbie
Mar 10, 2009
5 posts
Toronto
Ockham wrote:
Dec 17th, 2008 7:48 pm
1. The very fact a water tank rental company has a "Director Of Communications" should tell you what level of income it has.

Scenario A: All DE customers with a powervented 50 gallon tank: $2808/16 = $175.5 x 1,400,000 = $245,700,000/a

2. A sixteen year life expectency of a water tank means the average customer wastes nearly three grand on this relationship.

Ex. Power Vented 50 Gallon tank
$24/m x 12 m/a = $288

Cost to purchase same tank: $1800

$1800/$288 = 6.25 years 16-6.25=9.75
9.75 x $288 = $2,808

3. "Everyday, a team of 700 highly-trained and licensed technicians are committed to ensuring the upkeep of our customers' water heaters."

1.4 million tanks divided by 700 techs means 2000 tanks per guy. These are not complex appliances. They are cash cows for the rental companies. Ontario is the only place I know of where they are so prominent.

Rentals makes sense when the need is temporary. When you are out of town you rent a car because buying one doesn't make sense. If you need to move you rent a truck for the same reason. Some people like to rent a cottage for a week, a movie for a night, or an expensive tool for a specific home repair. If you need something for sixteen years, renting it costs you money.
"Im wondering where you came up with 1800 dollars.. no 50 gallon pv tank costs this much.. they are only 700 - 800 bucks. Perhaps you meant a tankless which direct is just starting to install"
Newbie
Mar 10, 2009
5 posts
Toronto
samson wrote:
Jan 31st, 2009 7:38 pm
Ok..guess what...a National home service agent came to my townhouse this afternoon and said they were replacing all water heaters in the complex because it did not adhere to new TSSA guidelines. My condo is little less than 5 yrs old. Also as the original poster, my rate will be 24.25$. I am with DE right now and paying 20.XX monthly. NHS will replace the pipings and vents free of charge (according to DE website, I am responsible for this part). I know my pipes need to be replaced because my furnace technician said the same thing.

My appt is schedule for wed. Basically, I dont want to tie in for 15 yrs. Is this upgrade really necessary???? I see some of my neighbors have gone ahead and replaced theirs today.
Hi Samson,. The vents are required to be upgraded to a new type of safer vent. This is from a directors order from TSSA. If you are renting from Direct right now and need this upgrade, then the cost is 150 bucks for the first ten feet of vent.Its 10 dollars a foot and per added fitting after that. Most upgrades are between $150 and $250 .If national does this for "FREE" then when you do the math you are really paying for the vent upgrade over the fifteen years. I would have to say that this can only add up to more than is fair for the work that they do. My rough calculations show that it could be up to $765 dollars for the "FREE" vent change.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 18, 2005
15338 posts
562 upvotes
Niagara Falls
I had a company by another name come to my house and try to pull the same thing. I'm in the Niagara Region so maybe NHS isn't down here or they just haven't done their rounds yet.

Basically I just told them I wasn't signing anything that night, I never sign anything that quickly.

As for rental vs purchase.

In my current financial position I feel $13 a month far less then I'd ever fill $1000+ lump sum.
Stop being lazy RFD and fix the auto subscription nonsense. This is a damn discussion forum.
Newbie
Mar 10, 2009
5 posts
Toronto
Spinz wrote:
Mar 7th, 2009 12:04 pm
got a similar visit by National Home services yesterday,...the tank comparison seemed to make sense, glass vs metal liner, and also he was mentioning that their tank is Energy star rated, and this will allow for a tax credit....

these are things that I choose to review and do comparisons.

Some good sale points he mentioned are that if you already have the pre-requisite pipes you can save $2 off the rental rate of 24.xx to 22.xx. also there is an energy savings associated with the new tanks that should save 30% off of usage costs of natural gas. Once again, things I have to research...

did any one else get this type of information or have more information on this?
I am a gas fitter for 22 yrs....All tanks are glass lined. All tanks are now required to be energy star rated.Conventional tanks have an efficiency rating of 56-58 % Power vented tanks are probably a bit higher. say 60%. The only water heater that is higher is a tankless unit @ 84%. NHS is installing the same tanks as Direct. Be carefull...
Member
User avatar
Mar 24, 2008
366 posts
8 upvotes
Eddsky wrote:
Mar 11th, 2009 10:10 pm
"Im wondering where you came up with 1800 dollars.. no 50 gallon pv tank costs this much.. they are only 700 - 800 bucks. Perhaps you meant a tankless which direct is just starting to install"
$1,800 is what it costs the homeowner for a complete installation.

I haven't installed a water tank this year so unless there's been a dramatic price reduction I'll go by my last invoice: Bradford White MITW50 - Power Vented 50 Gallon Water Tank $951.11 taxes in.

That's my cost for just the tank. Add venting, labour, and mark-up (so I can stay in business) and $1,800 is the homeowner cost. Actually, that would be assuming an install crew is there anyway doing a furnace or something, otherwise it would be higher.
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