It was your bump of a NHS topic that resurrected this thread. Only stated that you regurgitated old tankless info?
Feb 3rd, 2009 6:44 pm
Feb 3rd, 2009 7:47 pm
Good advice.Anonymouse wrote: ↑Dec 17th, 2008 9:00 amThat new water heater, which is worth about $1500 installed, is going to cost you $4365 over the 15 year term. If you intend to stay in the house for at least 5 years, you're better off buying one yourself. If you know for sure you'll be moving before then, and there aren't any onerous termination clauses when you sell the house, by all means rent.
Feb 3rd, 2009 7:54 pm
Hopefully a smart buyer won't force this as a condition on the sale but it is a good move to wait and see if they will catch it or not. I hate how when you buy a new home in Ontario, most builders have a rented tank installed and of course tell you only when you are preparing the agreement of purchase and sale.
Feb 7th, 2009 3:23 pm
Feb 7th, 2009 4:23 pm
Good on you for doing all the right things.trini1313 wrote: ↑Feb 7th, 2009 3:23 pmNational Home Services just came to my door. He said they were replacing all of the water heaters in our complex, as they are all over 10 years old. It was a free installation, and was through Enbridge and everything had been arranged. He made it sound like Enbridge had sent them, and they were my currently supplier.
He asked to see my bill so he could determine what size tank I had. I grabbed my bill, and asked where it would say what size the tank was (I was not about to hand over the bill with my personal information). He said he just needed my Enbridge account number, and they would call next week to set up our appointment. I asked if I could call Enbridge first because I had received no notice from them that someone would be coming. He said I could but they were here now, so i should give him my account number and the exact name on the bill and call Enbridge later. I told him that I'm sure he could appreciate that I didn't want to give my info to some guy that just showed up at my door. He said that he already had all my information, he just needed the account number. Well, my address is on the front of my house, and I have a computer with a reverse directory too, so he didn't really have anything 'secret'. I told him I would call him if I felt I needed his services. He left me with a flyer and told me to check out the website for a demonstration of the black sludge that is sitting at the bottom of my tank (can you say last ditch scare tactic?)
I just checked my water heater, and although the date is hard to read, it was installed in either 01 or 07, so at most it is 8 years old. I called Enbridge, and as it turns out my supplier is Direct Energy. I have no issue with them or my water heater so far (just moved into our home in Sept) and pay $13 a month. They told me that NHS was a competitor that wanted to lock me into a 15 year contract, and that their monthly fees may be higher. Direct Energy will not send someone to my door unannounced. If I have a concern, I contact them and they will send out a technician.
In any case, the moral of the story is don't get sucked in by anyone who knocks on your door. As with any decision, walk away and think it through. It's not likely they're going to turn your business away later because you didn't sign up right then and there. Maybe NHS is in fact a better service, but because I feel they tried to pressure (scam) me into signing up with them, I will never know and they will never have my business.
It's a good thing it was me and not my husband or we'd be SOL right now! lol...
Feb 20th, 2009 8:53 pm
Feb 28th, 2009 8:24 pm
Hey there I just suckered myself into this contract too, Being a new homeowner it is hard to be familiar with services for our utilities because someone is always trying to mislead us or convince us differently, but that is how our society works. If you read the contract agreement on the back of the yellow copy he gave you, in the bottom of the left hand corner you will find the "rights under the consumer protection act" and it clearly states you can cancel this contract within ten days and with no explanation. You also can cancel within 30 days prior to the installation. This is a giant scam and I am going to send you a link from the Toronto Star discussing this matter.br0pbr0p wrote: ↑Dec 16th, 2008 10:02 pmHi
Just tonight, an agent from National Home Service - Water Heater Division came by to check my water heater. He said since it is 10 years old, I should probably change it. So then he explains how National will replace mine with a high efficiency model with $0 installation fee but a slight increase to my monthly rental charge (to $24.25). They will also return my existing one to Direct Energy and there will be no charge to me.
Anyone have experience with this? I can't find much information on Google so I figure I will give RFD a try. I am not very familiar with water heaters, so if anyone can share their insights, that will be great. My biggest concern is that this agreement is for a 15 year term.
Feb 28th, 2009 8:33 pm
Feb 28th, 2009 9:34 pm
My opinion is...Matryx wrote: ↑Feb 28th, 2009 8:33 pmMy family's supplier is Direct Energy. Our water tank was replaced 1 or 2 years ago by Direct Energy. It was free of charge since we rent it from them. From this thread it seems like it would be cheaper if we buy our own water heater instead of renting. Since we only recently got it replaced what would be the better options now? Still rent it from DE or buy and install our own? I'm not sure what will happened with Direct Energy if we buy our own. I'll have to check if we are on any kind of contract.
Mar 7th, 2009 12:04 pm
Mar 11th, 2009 10:10 pm
"Im wondering where you came up with 1800 dollars.. no 50 gallon pv tank costs this much.. they are only 700 - 800 bucks. Perhaps you meant a tankless which direct is just starting to install"Ockham wrote: ↑Dec 17th, 2008 7:48 pm1. The very fact a water tank rental company has a "Director Of Communications" should tell you what level of income it has.
Scenario A: All DE customers with a powervented 50 gallon tank: $2808/16 = $175.5 x 1,400,000 = $245,700,000/a
2. A sixteen year life expectency of a water tank means the average customer wastes nearly three grand on this relationship.
Ex. Power Vented 50 Gallon tank
$24/m x 12 m/a = $288
Cost to purchase same tank: $1800
$1800/$288 = 6.25 years 16-6.25=9.75
9.75 x $288 = $2,808
3. "Everyday, a team of 700 highly-trained and licensed technicians are committed to ensuring the upkeep of our customers' water heaters."
1.4 million tanks divided by 700 techs means 2000 tanks per guy. These are not complex appliances. They are cash cows for the rental companies. Ontario is the only place I know of where they are so prominent.
Rentals makes sense when the need is temporary. When you are out of town you rent a car because buying one doesn't make sense. If you need to move you rent a truck for the same reason. Some people like to rent a cottage for a week, a movie for a night, or an expensive tool for a specific home repair. If you need something for sixteen years, renting it costs you money.
Mar 11th, 2009 10:36 pm
Hi Samson,. The vents are required to be upgraded to a new type of safer vent. This is from a directors order from TSSA. If you are renting from Direct right now and need this upgrade, then the cost is 150 bucks for the first ten feet of vent.Its 10 dollars a foot and per added fitting after that. Most upgrades are between $150 and $250 .If national does this for "FREE" then when you do the math you are really paying for the vent upgrade over the fifteen years. I would have to say that this can only add up to more than is fair for the work that they do. My rough calculations show that it could be up to $765 dollars for the "FREE" vent change.samson wrote: ↑Jan 31st, 2009 7:38 pmOk..guess what...a National home service agent came to my townhouse this afternoon and said they were replacing all water heaters in the complex because it did not adhere to new TSSA guidelines. My condo is little less than 5 yrs old. Also as the original poster, my rate will be 24.25$. I am with DE right now and paying 20.XX monthly. NHS will replace the pipings and vents free of charge (according to DE website, I am responsible for this part). I know my pipes need to be replaced because my furnace technician said the same thing.
My appt is schedule for wed. Basically, I dont want to tie in for 15 yrs. Is this upgrade really necessary???? I see some of my neighbors have gone ahead and replaced theirs today.
Mar 11th, 2009 10:39 pm
Mar 11th, 2009 10:54 pm
I am a gas fitter for 22 yrs....All tanks are glass lined. All tanks are now required to be energy star rated.Conventional tanks have an efficiency rating of 56-58 % Power vented tanks are probably a bit higher. say 60%. The only water heater that is higher is a tankless unit @ 84%. NHS is installing the same tanks as Direct. Be carefull...Spinz wrote: ↑Mar 7th, 2009 12:04 pmgot a similar visit by National Home services yesterday,...the tank comparison seemed to make sense, glass vs metal liner, and also he was mentioning that their tank is Energy star rated, and this will allow for a tax credit....
these are things that I choose to review and do comparisons.
Some good sale points he mentioned are that if you already have the pre-requisite pipes you can save $2 off the rental rate of 24.xx to 22.xx. also there is an energy savings associated with the new tanks that should save 30% off of usage costs of natural gas. Once again, things I have to research...
did any one else get this type of information or have more information on this?
Mar 12th, 2009 8:55 am
$1,800 is what it costs the homeowner for a complete installation.