Green / Eco-Friendly

Natural Gas Tankless Water Heaters in Ontario..Opinions?

  • Last Updated:
  • May 11th, 2018 10:58 am
[OP]
Jr. Member
Apr 5, 2009
143 posts
17 upvotes
Toronto

Natural Gas Tankless Water Heaters in Ontario..Opinions?

I've read that these are the greatest thing ...saves you $$$, endless hotwater, save the environment, space saving, 25yr lifespan...etc. Now, when i ask co-workers and acquaintances who has one installed and is happy with them in their home all i get is that they've looked into it but kept a normal hot water tank. Anyone out there with any real life experience with these things?
17 replies
Deal Addict
May 23, 2009
1801 posts
508 upvotes
Mississauga
It is basically just for the endless hot water. Get one if you need more hot water capacity and a 50-60G tank is not sufficient.

The cmhc study from 2011 showed NG consumption could drop 40-50% but choosing a tankless does not save you money because NG is cheap and the savings do not cover the upfront cost. 25yr lifespan is not an advantage because you could buy two tanks in that time frame and still come out slightly ahead...any saving is lost if you move to a new house too.
Newbie
Mar 15, 2017
17 posts
9 upvotes
I bought a Navien NPE-210A tankless hot water heater back in December 2016. I also read that CMHC study prior to that purchase. Here's the 4-1-1. (hint: the CMHC study is out to lunch)

If you are looking for more space in your basement, it's great. I love having it on the wall. I don't have to shut it off while I'm out of town (used to do that with the tank, in case it blew up).

If you love endless hot water, it's great. That being said, my 12 year old son has turned into a "shower diva" as there are no repercussions to using lots of water. Keep that in mind if you have teenagers.

You have to wait 10-20 seconds (assuming shower on 2nd floor and tankless in the basement) for the hot water to arrive. It takes longer for the hot water to arrive versus a tank. What you save on gas, you're paying in extra water/sewage costs.

If you're looking to save tons of natural gas, buy insulation for your home instead. Much better bang for your buck. Attic to R60 will save you way more nat gas than a tankless ever will.

The upfront cost of a tankless versus buying a good name tank doesn't justify the natural gas savings. You either want the space, or the endless hot water. If that's not important to you, buy a good name tank, and save your money. Use the money you saved to bump up your insulation. GreenON (if you're in Ontario) is giving you incentive to do it as well.

I figure I'm saving maybe high single digits (%) on my natural gas usage for hot water now that I'm tankless. Hope my insight helps!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 9, 2010
1860 posts
399 upvotes
Windsor
If you're not paying for it (e.g. it came installed in your apartment you're renting), they're pretty cool; unlimited hot water, and not hard on your wallet. They're also really good if they're servicing a lot of people (my dad's rental has one servicing 8 units; cleaned up the utility room considerably, so he only has one HWT instead of 6) .. or maybe if you have like 6 kids who have zero respect for water conservation.

If you have to pay to install it, the costs are extremely high. As well, the pancake issue essentially means you still "need" a small HWT anyways. The savings aren't astronomical, because HWTs don't really use much gas anyways.
One who is offended by truth, has no place among those who seek wisdom.
Deal Addict
Feb 24, 2007
3648 posts
583 upvotes
Done a through research 6 years ago before replacing my water tank. Even created a thread somewhere in here. Eventually dcided not to because,

1) expensive initial cost + installation.
2) hot water takes longer to reach the top floor as people said because turning on the tap water triggers the tank to heat up the water and takes a while.
3) better to be installed if you have water softener at home or you have to clean the tank once a year else it will break down prematurelly.


My fix is to get a bigger tank for more hot water (still not unlimited). One I have is an electrical start with a plug in to the wall outlet. We usually needs hot water for shower and washer from 4pm to 10pm. Go to work during the day. So I installed one of those smart outlet and set it to turn on at 3pm and turn off at 9pm. Works perfectly. Wake up the other morning at 7am still have hot water.
FS : Promise NS4300N NAS,Linksys RE400W,E5151,HBB1,VIVOTab RT,MemoPad 8
Deal Addict
May 23, 2009
1801 posts
508 upvotes
Mississauga
Avatar wrote:
Mar 21st, 2018 5:08 pm
My fix is to get a bigger tank for more hot water (still not unlimited). One I have is an electrical start with a plug in to the wall outlet. We usually needs hot water for shower and washer from 4pm to 10pm. Go to work during the day. So I installed one of those smart outlet and set it to turn on at 3pm and turn off at 9pm. Works perfectly. Wake up the other morning at 7am still have hot water.
While you are saving $ during the day by stopping your tank from igniting, your tank is not keeping the heat long enough to kill germs. You are heating an hour before usage and shutting off before you are done then leaving it below ideal temperature for most of the day

NG is cheap don't risk your health.

https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/i ... ature.html
Deal Addict
Feb 24, 2007
3648 posts
583 upvotes
bubuski wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2018 8:26 am
While you are saving $ during the day by stopping your tank from igniting, your tank is not keeping the heat long enough to kill germs. You are heating an hour before usage and shutting off before you are done then leaving it below ideal temperature for most of the day

NG is cheap don't risk your health.

https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/i ... ature.html
The tank is mainly for showering. And by the time it heats up after an hour what else is left? I believe the water bottle you are taking with you got more germs than that. And it still hot (probably 80C) after 8 hours.

On the other hand we have an under the sink reverse osmosis water filters with UV. That's what you need to get rid of the germs you put into your body. And more importantly wash your hands often.
FS : Promise NS4300N NAS,Linksys RE400W,E5151,HBB1,VIVOTab RT,MemoPad 8
Deal Addict
May 23, 2009
1801 posts
508 upvotes
Mississauga
Avatar wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2018 12:26 pm
The tank is mainly for showering. And by the time it heats up after an hour what else is left? I believe the water bottle you are taking with you got more germs than that. And it still hot (probably 80C) after 8 hours.

On the other hand we have an under the sink reverse osmosis water filters with UV. That's what you need to get rid of the germs you put into your body. And more importantly wash your hands often.
You can get legionella by inhaling contaminated water droplet while showering, it is in the link I posted. I also doubt the water in your tank is set to 176F.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 13, 2008
2475 posts
471 upvotes
Oshawa
Realistically it doesn't make much of a difference.

Tankless Water Heater ... uses electricity .... therefore your hydro electricity bills would be higher.
Standard Water Heater ... uses gas ... therefore your natural gas bills would be higher.

The charges offset each other ... basically speaking.

It is your choice to either heat your water with electricity or natural gas. The cost is basically the same. Just look at your bills ... Water Bill + Enbridge Gas Bill + Hydro Electricity Bill. You're just moving the cost from one company to another. The water usage is the same either way.

We are billed once every quarter ... our last quarter ... 23 cubic meters used for 3 months ... average of about 8 cubic meters per month.

Our rough monthly cost of just water+gas+electricity: $46.78+$95.37+$64.43 = $206.58

This is my most recent Water Bill:
IMG_20180324_153309.jpg
Stress is caused by NOT fishing enough.
JDM ONLY! No North American CRAP!
Megabass, Imakatsu, Jackall, GanCraft, OSP, EverGreen, YGK, Toray, Sunline, Nories, Shimano, Daiwa RULES!
EVA Air Rocks ... Air Canada SUCKS!
Deal Addict
Feb 24, 2007
3648 posts
583 upvotes
bubuski wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2018 12:37 pm
You can get legionella by inhaling contaminated water droplet while showering, it is in the link I posted. I also doubt the water in your tank is set to 176F.
Ya. I know. And add this to the list of holding our breath when flushing the toilet or walking pass the smokers. And we still can't live long no matter what we tried. LOL.
FS : Promise NS4300N NAS,Linksys RE400W,E5151,HBB1,VIVOTab RT,MemoPad 8
Deal Addict
May 23, 2009
1801 posts
508 upvotes
Mississauga
AV-Fishing wrote:
Mar 24th, 2018 4:21 pm
Realistically it doesn't make much of a difference.

Tankless Water Heater ... uses electricity .... therefore your hydro electricity bills would be higher.
Standard Water Heater ... uses gas ... therefore your natural gas bills would be higher.
.
.
.
I agree for an Electric tankless but the discussion was more or less comparing replacing a NG Tank for NG tankless. The NG Tankless will not consume more electricity or NG to heat the same amount of water. My tankless has a variable burner compared to the fixed burner on most tanks. The Power vent is also variable speed compared to the single fixed speed of the tank it replaced. Both combined consume less gas and electricity
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 22, 2007
5043 posts
1000 upvotes
Brampton
colynp wrote:
Mar 3rd, 2018 6:39 am
I bought a Navien NPE-210A tankless hot water heater back in December 2016. I also read that CMHC study prior to that purchase. Here's the 4-1-1. (hint: the CMHC study is out to lunch)

If you are looking for more space in your basement, it's great. I love having it on the wall. I don't have to shut it off while I'm out of town (used to do that with the tank, in case it blew up).

If you love endless hot water, it's great. That being said, my 12 year old son has turned into a "shower diva" as there are no repercussions to using lots of water. Keep that in mind if you have teenagers.

You have to wait 10-20 seconds (assuming shower on 2nd floor and tankless in the basement) for the hot water to arrive. It takes longer for the hot water to arrive versus a tank. What you save on gas, you're paying in extra water/sewage costs.

If you're looking to save tons of natural gas, buy insulation for your home instead. Much better bang for your buck. Attic to R60 will save you way more nat gas than a tankless ever will.

The upfront cost of a tankless versus buying a good name tank doesn't justify the natural gas savings. You either want the space, or the endless hot water. If that's not important to you, buy a good name tank, and save your money. Use the money you saved to bump up your insulation. GreenON (if you're in Ontario) is giving you incentive to do it as well.

I figure I'm saving maybe high single digits (%) on my natural gas usage for hot water now that I'm tankless. Hope my insight helps!
Are you sure you went with NPE-210A ? Cause NPE-210A has the Circualtion System and Buffer tank so the water comes way faster ...

Your plumber may forgot to turn the dip switch #1 on

Newbie
Mar 15, 2017
17 posts
9 upvotes
Hello! The Navien I bought is the NPE-210A. My shower is probably the farthest distance from my tankless, which may explain the time it takes for hot water to reach our master bedroom bathroom. I did tell my plumber when he was installing it that it had the recirc feature (he didn't know), and quickly went to the manual to check it out. I assume he hit the #1 dip switch, but I haven't looked myself.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 22, 2007
5043 posts
1000 upvotes
Brampton
colynp wrote:
Apr 27th, 2018 6:13 am
Hello! The Navien I bought is the NPE-210A. My shower is probably the farthest distance from my tankless, which may explain the time it takes for hot water to reach our master bedroom bathroom. I did tell my plumber when he was installing it that it had the recirc feature (he didn't know), and quickly went to the manual to check it out. I assume he hit the #1 dip switch, but I haven't looked myself.
Better to check and take full advantage of the extra money you paid for.. now if you have a dedicated external re circulation line comes from bath back to tank then you are set. if not you need to make the dip switch but mind it your electricity bill may go up slightly as now the system is going to keep that small buffer tank heated all the time.

You can also turn on dip switch #2 for intelligent heating but it only works well if you take scheduled baths like 7AM everyday
Newbie
Mar 17, 2015
71 posts
76 upvotes
Saskatoon, SK
bubuski wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2018 8:26 am
While you are saving $ during the day by stopping your tank from igniting, your tank is not keeping the heat long enough to kill germs. You are heating an hour before usage and shutting off before you are done then leaving it below ideal temperature for most of the day

NG is cheap don't risk your health.

https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/i ... ature.html
Thanks Bubuski! Would never even thought of potential health issue concerns when turning down, or off through out day, the water heater. Great article, thanks for sharing!

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)