Off Topic

NDP Pushes Reforms To Canada's Jury Selection Process, NDP leader says ‘justice was not served’ in Stanley verdict

  • Last Updated:
  • Feb 18th, 2018 8:32 pm
[OP]
Deal Expert
User avatar
Dec 7, 2012
31824 posts
8189 upvotes
GTHA

NDP Pushes Reforms To Canada's Jury Selection Process, NDP leader says ‘justice was not served’ in Stanley verdict

NDP Pushes Reforms To Canada's Jury Selection Process After Gerald Stanley Verdict
No Indigenous jurors were selected to examine the Colten Boushie case.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/02/12 ... _23359791/

Jagmeet Singh says ‘justice was not served’ in Gerald Stanley verdict
NDP leader Jagmeet Singh told reporters in Ottawa Tuesday that in his opinion, “justice was not served” to the family of Colten Boushie following the not guilty verdict for Gerald Stanley.

Last edited by tk1000 on Feb 12th, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
28 replies
Deal Addict
Dec 23, 2010
1224 posts
591 upvotes
Moon
Deliberately choosing someone of a certain race in the Jury creates bias. FACT
Penalty Box
User avatar
Mar 20, 2009
1285 posts
186 upvotes
Toronto
What mental loops one must jump to think that an all white jury equals justice.
[OP]
Deal Expert
User avatar
Dec 7, 2012
31824 posts
8189 upvotes
GTHA
Applesmack wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 10:31 pm
Deliberately choosing someone of a certain race in the Jury creates bias. FACT
Do you have an opinion on "peremptory challenges"?

In 2013, former top court justice Frank Iacobucci released a report that included urging Ontario to push the feds to "prevent the use of peremptory challenges to discriminate against First Nations people."

NDP justice critic Murray Rankin charged that peremptory challenges let lawyers reject prospective jurors for no reason at all.

"Maybe they don't like the way they look. Maybe it's the colour of their skin," Rankin said.
Sr. Member
Feb 10, 2007
994 posts
388 upvotes
Calgary, AB
It doesn't help when the prospective indigenous candidates talk opening about stringing up the defendent. (Whether intentional to get out of jury duty, who knows)
Deal Addict
Dec 23, 2010
1224 posts
591 upvotes
Moon
tk1000 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 10:38 pm
Do you have an opinion on "peremptory challenges"?

In 2013, former top court justice Frank Iacobucci released a report that included urging Ontario to push the feds to "prevent the use of peremptory challenges to discriminate against First Nations people."

NDP justice critic Murray Rankin charged that peremptory challenges let lawyers reject prospective jurors for no reason at all.

"Maybe they don't like the way they look. Maybe it's the colour of their skin," Rankin said.
I do not agree with this 'peremptory challenge'. Jury selection should be a truly random selection of Canadians. Absolutely no attempt should be made to manipulate the randomness by introducing ' racial representativity' or 'peremptory challenges'. If a Juror is denied there should be reasonable doubt on them being unbiased after a background check.
Deal Addict
Jan 30, 2012
1363 posts
569 upvotes
TORONTO
Applesmack wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 10:43 pm
If a Juror is denied there should be reasonable doubt on them being unbiased after a background check.
Ha. Like the illegal background checks being performed by over a third of crown prosecutors in Ontario for years, even when they were told not to do that?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... le4195885/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontario-j ... s-1.778031
https://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/20 ... _boot.html
http://www.financialpost.com/small-busi ... story.html



When you have a potential juror, both the prosecution and the defense can question them and have them removed for cause (ie, bias).

Human nature being what it is, some people will lie when questioned about bias, and some people don't realize they are biased. So both the prosecution and defense get a small number of peremptory challenges for suspected but unprovable bias.
[OP]
Deal Expert
User avatar
Dec 7, 2012
31824 posts
8189 upvotes
GTHA
Applesmack wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 10:43 pm
I do not agree with this 'peremptory challenge'. Jury selection should be a truly random selection of Canadians. Absolutely no attempt should be made to manipulate the randomness by introducing ' racial representativity' or 'peremptory challenges'. If a Juror is denied there should be reasonable doubt on them being unbiased after a background check.
After decades of warnings about race-based targeting, are reforms finally coming to Canada's jury system?
At the Gerald Stanley trial, the defence counsel made sure to block as many as five jurors who appeared to be Indigenous, leaving a jury that looked entirely white

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/a ... ury-system
Deal Fanatic
Apr 8, 2013
8545 posts
300 upvotes
Definitely need reform here, specially cases that are racially driven. Both parties have to agree that the jury is race neutral.

This isnt 1950's Alabama. This is Canada 2018.

Its ridiculous to even be talking about this. It is so backwards.
Diversity Is Our Strength 😎
Deal Fanatic
Mar 15, 2005
5298 posts
850 upvotes
750 jurors were summoned to the court to serve as potential witnesses for the trial, only 250 showed up.

Are there any stats on the demographics of those who showed up vs who didn't?

The population in that are is reported to be 25% native, if the 750 summoned was approximately 25% indigenous but that subset disproportionately did not attend, what do you want people to do? Technically the answer is to send a sheriff and detain those who did not show, which I am sure would again be decreed as racist...
[OP]
Deal Expert
User avatar
Dec 7, 2012
31824 posts
8189 upvotes
GTHA
Ziggy007 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 4:26 pm
750 jurors were summoned to the court to serve as potential witnesses for the trial, only 250 showed up.
from https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/new ... e37784480/

700 potential jurors in the massive Battlefords district were summoned, approximately 200 showed up and nearly 50 were excused.

Each time a person who appeared to be Indigenous took his or her turn, a single word emanated from the defence bench: challenge. The potential juror then walked slowly back to his or her seat. Whether male or female, young or old, the potential jurors who looked Indigenous were blocked.

The process is not unusual and is integral to jury selection. Both defence and the Crown were given 14 peremptory challenges, which by definition require no justification from either side. Some of the challenges were also used to block middle-aged white men and young women. But the final result, which appeared to be an all-white jury, was precisely what Mr. Boushie's relatives had hoped to avoid and it left them upset.


from http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/ ... al-system/

Chris Murphy, a Toronto-based defence lawyer, commented on the jury selection process.

Murphy spoke emotionally today about jury selection for Stanley’s trial, and how five possible jurors who looked Indigenous were challenged by the defence, which meant they were ruled out. Talking with reporters, here’s how he described that scene at a Saskatchewan community centre, starting with a random draw of possible jurors, from which the 12 who ultimately made up the jury were chosen:

“They drew 45 names out of a drum, and five of those people appeared to be Indigenous. And the fourth person to come up was a beautiful man, long hair, and a twinkle in his eye. I’m a defence lawyer and I thought before this selection process, there is no chance that there will ever be an Indigenous person on this jury. And I saw him walk up, and even I had a brief glimmer of hope that this guy was going to make it on. He walked up and, ‘Accused look upon the juror, juror look upon the accused,’ and the word ‘challenge’ came out. And then four more, challenge, challenge, challenge, challenge.”

Murphy said this predictable pattern of rejecting Indigenous-looking jurors in trials where the victim or the accused is Indigenous shouldn’t be allowed, and could be ended easily by doing away entirely with peremptory challenges. He said they are generally based on little more than the appearance of the prospective juror. “You get to eyeball that person for three seconds before you make the decision. And so if you’re an Indigenous person watching this process, what are you to think? What is this decision based on?”
Deal Fanatic
Jul 5, 2005
7130 posts
240 upvotes
kevindurant1 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 9:54 am
Definitely need reform here, specially cases that are racially driven. Both parties have to agree that the jury is race neutral.

This isnt 1950's Alabama. This is Canada 2018.

Its ridiculous to even be talking about this. It is so backwards.
What is "race neutral"?

Do you consider a group made up of a person from Spain, a person from Wales, and a person from Russia to be ethnically diverse?

What do you view as the point of the justice system in Canada, is it for retribution or for rehabilitation?
Deal Fanatic
Apr 8, 2013
8545 posts
300 upvotes
tk1000 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 4:43 pm
from https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/new ... e37784480/



Chris Murphy, a Toronto-based defence lawyer, commented on the jury selection process.

Murphy spoke emotionally today about jury selection for Stanley’s trial, and how five possible jurors who looked Indigenous were challenged by the defence, which meant they were ruled out. Talking with reporters, here’s how he described that scene at a Saskatchewan community centre, starting with a random draw of possible jurors, from which the 12 who ultimately made up the jury were chosen:



That is so messed up, man.

Just the fact that it actually works and they know white jurors will give them a much better odds at winning because of racism is just disappointing.

The government has to do something about this. This is Canada.

This is a loophole that undermines our democracy.


What is "race neutral"?

Do you consider a group made up of a person from Spain, a person from Wales, and a person from Russia to be ethnically diverse?


Race neutral means one race is not dominating the jury. All white jury is not diverse in this case, it doesnt matter if they come from Ireland, Russia, Germany.

For every white juror, there should have been an aboriginal there. Specially in a case like this where its race driven.

Either way, this is done. I hope this case force the government to come up with a legislation so we can prevent this in the future because this is pretty disturbing.

Its 2018. This should have been fixed decades ago.
Diversity Is Our Strength 😎
Penalty Box
Jan 17, 2012
4015 posts
101 upvotes
Toronto
shikotee wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 10:36 pm
What mental loops one must jump to think that an all white jury equals justice.
Justice for whom? For the deceased? He was not on trial so the ethnicity of the jurors is irrelevant. Again, the justice system provides a fair trial for the defendant not the victim.
Penalty Box
Jan 17, 2012
4015 posts
101 upvotes
Toronto
kevindurant1 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 9:54 am
Definitely need reform here, specially cases that are racially driven. Both parties have to agree that the jury is race neutral.

This isnt 1950's Alabama. This is Canada 2018.

Its ridiculous to even be talking about this. It is so backwards.
What does 1950s Alabama have to do with this? Surely the issue there was black defendants being judged by white people who held deeply racist views. This was the complete opposite of that...this was a white man being judged by white people. What you would want ie. Jury of natives judging a white man, that would be like 1950s alabama.

Top