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Need Advice on Mini/Med. GoldenDoodles & LabraDoodles

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  • Apr 8th, 2017 3:28 pm
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[OP]
Newbie
Mar 21, 2017
12 posts
2 upvotes

Need Advice on Mini/Med. GoldenDoodles & LabraDoodles

In 2016 I lost my wife and my dog just 2 days apart. This Bichon dog and angel, was self trained to pick up and warn us re my son's seizures.
We are now looking for a new puppy in the 20-35 pound range, currently looking at a Goldendoodle or Labradoodle F1 or F1B.
My concern is the health of these dogs especially when it comes to cancer. As you know Golden Retrievers and even Yellow Labs are very prone to cancers.
I would assume this mixing with a poodle dog would probably have the same health issues with even epilepsy added and the usual eye, hip, and heart issues.
Another concern is that here in the Toronto area (S. Ont.) finding a reputable breeder when dealing with a "designer" dog has proven to be a nightmare.
They don't answer emails, even online applications for upcoming litters. It seems questions as to where the dog parents & their certified health are taboo questions for the ones I managed to contact.

I have seen prices starting at $2,500 to $4-8,000 to as much as $16,000 for a 10 month puppy leash and toilet trained. INSANE ! Of course a $500-$1,000 non refundable fee applies to put you in line for a puppy. With the F1 & F1B the Hybrid Vigor does take hold. Usually providing a little better health as far as I understand.

I look forward to any advice and breeder recommendations based on your actual experience.
Thank you for taking the time.Smiling Face With Open Mouth
34 replies
Deal Fanatic
Apr 23, 2009
5150 posts
659 upvotes
South of Ottawa
If the dog is coming from a reputable breeder, the health issues should not be an issue. Having said that, it is impossible to predict cancer, although the others (hip, eye, heart) would not be an issue if the dogs are tested. Southern Ontario is the hotbed of puppymills and byb breeders in Ontario, so yes, you will have trouble finding a good breeder in that area. If they don't answer questions about the mom, health testing, etc., stay far away. Do not buy from any breeder advertising on kijiji. Good breeders don't have to advertise. A reputable breeder will have a website with up to date information and will be forthcoming with all Q&As. The only one I know of in your area that I would recommend is Halton Hills Labradoodles (Burlington area) .

I have a 45lb Australian multi-gen labradoodle. Her breeder generally focuses on smaller pups, mine being her only medium-large breeding mother.

Yes, she charges $2700 a pup ($500 deposit). However, the dog is spayed/neutered, and health tested for everything you mentioned. 2 year guarantee (she will refund up to the purchase price or replace the dog). Canadian Doodle Puppies

If cost is a factor, most of these breeders have guardian programs (mine is a breeding dog, about to have her 3rd and final litter; she will be spayed and ownership transferred to me at no cost). This is detailed information on guardianship (from my breeder although most follow the same guidelines) Guardianship

Halton Hills Guardian wanted

PM me if you want more detailed or specific information.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 21, 2017
12 posts
2 upvotes
Thank you Beachdown for your time and your input. You are correct here in S. Ont. we are living in a puppy mill hot spot. Incredibly I have filled in several of their approval application and only received one 3 line response ! Their is nothing in my application that would be a red flag of any type. I'm a animal lover, member of the Toronto Humane Society, supporter of the OSPCA and a previous dog owner with a large yard. So I don't understand why no responses other than perhaps asking the tough questions.
I've had some dog professionals, vet, 2 book authors all telling me to stay away from these Doodle dogs. Dr. Stanley of "Good Dog" TV show fame who interviewed the originator of Labradoodles has said that this breeder would never have one in his house. He firmly believe he is responsible for creating a money monster.

Frankly I'm starting to review my plans for these dogs.
Deal Fanatic
Apr 23, 2009
5150 posts
659 upvotes
South of Ottawa
Quercetin67HP wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 11:40 am
Thank you Beachdown for your time and your input. You are correct here in S. Ont. we are living in a puppy mill hot spot. Incredibly I have filled in several of their approval application and only received one 3 line response ! Their is nothing in my application that would be a red flag of any type. I'm a animal lover, member of the Toronto Humane Society, supporter of the OSPCA and a previous dog owner with a large yard. So I don't understand why no responses other than perhaps asking the tough questions.
I've had some dog professionals, vet, 2 book authors all telling me to stay away from these Doodle dogs. Dr. Stanley of "Good Dog" TV show fame who interviewed the originator of Labradoodles has said that this breeder would never have one in his house. He firmly believe he is responsible for creating a money monster.

Frankly I'm starting to review my plans for these dogs.
The problem is they became so popular very quickly which led to the proliferation of backyard breeders and puppymill doodles. And they spawned the rest of the poodle crosses that are also a large source of mill dogs now. People advertise them as hypoallergenic, when there is no such thing. There are people who hate them just because of their popularity, and the fact that they are cross breeds being sold for a lot of money. You will get responses on here from haters as well. I do understand the "lot of money" issue. However, people will pay thousands for a purebred that is more likely to have health issues, and think because it has papers it is a "healthy" dog. The fact is, registration papers mean nothing. (The AKC and CKC make the majority of their revenue from registration fees. The vast majority of those registrations are coming from puppymills). And even so-called reputable purebred breeders, knowingly breeding dogs with health problems to make money.

I can find hundreds of links on the internet talking about what terrible dogs they are. I can also find just as many, talking about how great they are. Like with any dog, it is usually the owner that is the source of behavioural problems.

No matter what kind of dog you decide to get, the priority should always be on the health and temperament of the pup. People selling doodles for $1000 on kijiji are not doing any health testing at all. People selling any kind of dog on kijiji are not health testing. My girl's breeder had a pup that was born with a serious heart defect. Not only did she pull the mom and dad from her breeding program, but she informed all the buyers of that litter, and had all the pups re-tested at 1, 2 and 3 years old. Even though it was not a genetic defect. Conversely, a friend bought a golden retriever from a "reputable" breeder, somewhere near Guelph. Poor little guy had severe hip dysplasia at 4 months old. Pretty clear that breeder did zero health testing and continues breeding the mom and dad to this day.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 21, 2017
12 posts
2 upvotes
By far I have not eliminated Doodles from my plans. And yes I know there are arguments to be made on all sides. I have done a ton of research in all areas and I wanted to hear what people had to say on here. Mainly I want to hear about personal experiences with these dogs and breeders they recommend and why. As a marketing man I know that this site can also be a way of promoting a product, a dog or a breeder. That is why I talked with vets and dog experts. Sadly the breeders are not regulated at all. The OSPCA has nothing to offer even on a given breeder they can't or won't tell you anything.
Deal Fanatic
Apr 23, 2009
5150 posts
659 upvotes
South of Ottawa
It really is buyer beware. As it's a 15 year or more commitment, more people need to put as much research and thought into it like you are.
Jr. Member
User avatar
Jan 23, 2012
141 posts
40 upvotes
Ilderton, ON
Have you considered some of the less common purebred breeds? Since you are looking at doodles, I'm guessing you want a non-shedding breed. There are plenty of those without getting a designer dog. Have you looked at the Havanese, Barbet, Pyrenean Shepherd, or Tibetan Terrier? Since they are not over-bred, they tend to suffer from fewer of the congenital defects that afflict the more common breeds. Although I don't have any personal experience with these breeds, unlike the doodle breeders, purebred breeders normally have breed clubs you can contact to help you find a reputable breeder.
Deal Fanatic
Apr 23, 2009
5150 posts
659 upvotes
South of Ottawa
Notme666 wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 11:10 pm
Have you considered some of the less common purebred breeds? Since you are looking at doodles, I'm guessing you want a non-shedding breed. There are plenty of those without getting a designer dog. Have you looked at the Havanese, Barbet, Pyrenean Shepherd, or Tibetan Terrier? Since they are not over-bred, they tend to suffer from fewer of the congenital defects that afflict the more common breeds. Although I don't have any personal experience with these breeds, unlike the doodle breeders, purebred breeders normally have breed clubs you can contact to help you find a reputable breeder.
Every breed you mentioned has health issues. Just like very other purebred dog. And breed clubs are in the business of promoting breeders in that world. Take it all with a grain of salt.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 21, 2017
12 posts
2 upvotes
Thank you for your input. Yes I have over the years reviewed ALL the dogs that fit my specs. I'm a perfectionist so it is hard to match my guidelines. I try to balance the real selection VS the features I'm looking for. I've had dogs and cats and I'm aware of the numerous health issues that are growing by the year. Example Golden Retrievers used to live to 15-17 years just 25 years ago. Today they are lucky to get to 10 years old. The breeding and the pet food is devastating our pets. So today when you are trying to get a new puppy you really have to educate yourself.
Or you can go in blind and hope for the best.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 27, 2009
3366 posts
1318 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
I have a problem paying huge money to anyone who is breeding mutts (no matter how lovely they may be, and I do think doodles are lovely).
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 21, 2017
12 posts
2 upvotes
Can you imagine these people charging $3,000-$16,000 ? Insanity !
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 21, 2017
12 posts
2 upvotes
Thank you for your thoughts. I was outside the other day when a young lady went by with this dog that looked exactly like the Global TV weatherman's famous dog Storm.
I asked her about her dog asking if it was a Labradoodle or Goldendoodle. She said it was a Poodle. It was a miniature poodle! I couldn't believe that one couldn't tell the difference, at least I can't.
So , yes I'm looking into getting a Poodle. My only concern is that I heard Poodles are more high strung and not the best around children because of this.
Further, Poodles do have more issues with epilepsy. And since my son has epilepsy I'm really somewhat concerned.

Do you own a Poodle?
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 21, 2017
12 posts
2 upvotes
Know any reputable breeders in the GTA? I've contacted a couple of them days ago and no responses ! This seems to be a common trait with these breeders at least in my case !
Newbie
Oct 25, 2012
21 posts
5 upvotes
You can try contacting your local breed club (contact the CKC if you can't find it). Also, you can go to dog shows and ask the exhibitors whether they're planning any litters, whether they do any line breeding, what sort of health testing they do etc. (make sure they aren't getting ready to get in the ring). You will probably have to pay a deposit and wait for a pick from an upcoming litter.

It's also possible to find a good breeder on Kijiji, but you have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. You may have to look around for months. Generally I've found that responsible breeders will list the testing they've done on their dogs (e.g. OFA, Cerf etc.) on the ad itself. Many ads offer a health guarantee, but in my experience, this means nothing. Many of these breeders are backyard breeders and do not perform health testing of the breeding stock. Even health guarantees from responsible breeders is not a draw at all for me. You get to return the dog if he has a hereditary defect for another pup? No thanks, I'd have grown attached, I'm sure.

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