Need Feedback on a charge: FAIL TO YIELD TO TRAFFIC ON THROUGH HIGHWAY 136 (1)(b)

[creamsoda]

I"m hoping someone has insight to share on this:

- Car 1 going northbound stops at stop sign. Makes full stop.
- Car 2 proceeds eastbound - does not have a stop sign.
- Car 1 starts into the intersection, failing to notice Car 3 approaching the intersection going westbound. Car 3 does not have a stop sign to yield to.
- Car 1 and Car 3 collide.

Potential contributing factors (for now, assume that driver of Car 1 accepts fault):
- poor visibility of all vehicles due to large construction trucks
- Car 3 speeding (not excessively but probably more than the posted limit of 40 km/hr), no way to prove this

- Driver of Car 1 is charged with the offense of FAIL TO YIELD TO TRAFFIC ON THROUGH HIGHWAY 136 (1)(b) - set fine is $85 (total payable: $110)
- No other charges laid

Q1: Does this charge come with 3 demerit point deduction?

Q2: If we plead not guilty and take our chance at court (an option suggested by a very courteous police officer), is there a lesser charge that would carry with it less demerit points?

Q3: If the same charge is kept, the court can reduce the fine, but not the points. Is that correct?

Thank you in advance.

[Whitedart]

I"m hoping someone has insight to share on this:

- Car 1 going northbound stops at stop sign. Makes full stop.
- Car 2 proceeds eastbound - does not have a stop sign.
- Car 1 starts into the intersection, failing to notice Car 3 approaching the intersection going westbound. Car 3 does not have a stop sign to yield to.
- Car 1 and Car 3 collide.

Potential contributing factors (for now, assume that driver of Car 1 accepts fault):
- poor visibility of all vehicles due to large construction trucks
- Car 3 speeding (not excessively but probably more than the posted limit of 40 km/hr), no way to prove this

Does not matter. If you can't see that roadway is clear, don't move.

- Driver of Car 1 is charged with the offense of FAIL TO YIELD TO TRAFFIC ON THROUGH HIGHWAY 136 (1)(b) - set fine is $85 (total payable: $110)
- No other charges laid

Q1: Does this charge come with 3 demerit point deduction?

You start with Zero, and demerit points are added.

Q2: If we plead not guilty and take our chance at court (an option suggested by a very courteous police officer), is there a lesser charge that would carry with it less demerit points?

Plead not guilty and go to trial, there is very little chance of any reduction to a lessor charge.

Speak to the prosecutor before court, and ask about a guilty plea to a reduced/lessor charge, then maybe yes.

Q3: If the same charge is kept, the court can reduce the fine, but not the points. Is that correct?

Yes, upon conviction, the court may maintain, lower, or raise the amount of the fine, depending on the evidence heard.
But, demerit points have nothing to do with the courts. Demerit points are assigned by the Ministry upon receipt of the conviction.

[jackiechan511]

I"m hoping someone has insight to share on this:

- Car 1 going northbound stops at stop sign. Makes full stop.
- Car 2 proceeds eastbound - does not have a stop sign.
- Car 1 starts into the intersection, failing to notice Car 3 approaching the intersection going westbound. Car 3 does not have a stop sign to yield to.
- Car 1 and Car 3 collide.

Potential contributing factors (for now, assume that driver of Car 1 accepts fault):
- poor visibility of all vehicles due to large construction trucks
- Car 3 speeding (not excessively but probably more than the posted limit of 40 km/hr), no way to prove this

- Driver of Car 1 is charged with the offense of FAIL TO YIELD TO TRAFFIC ON THROUGH HIGHWAY 136 (1)(b) - set fine is $85 (total payable: $110)
- No other charges laid

Q1: Does this charge come with 3 demerit point deduction?

Q2: If we plead not guilty and take our chance at court (an option suggested by a very courteous police officer), is there a lesser charge that would carry with it less demerit points?

Q3: If the same charge is kept, the court can reduce the fine, but not the points. Is that correct?

Thank you in advance.

OP to answer your questions:
1) The charge does carry 3 demerit points upon conviction
2) You do have the option to plead down to a lessor charge called plea bargaining. But do this before the trial when speaking to the prosecutor. Once the trial begins, you forfeit any chance of pleading down to a lessor charge.
3) If you're found guilty, the courts do have the discretion of reducing the fine or waiving it under special circumstances but the JP has no authority over the demerit points. Whatever happens to the fine is up to the JP.

[creamsoda]

OP to answer your questions:
2) You do have the option to plead down to a lessor charge called plea bargaining. But do this before the trial when speaking to the prosecutor. Once the trial begins, you forfeit any chance of pleading down to a lessor charge.

Thank you ... I thought I recall seeing something on the ticket that said something to the effect that if you meet with the prosecutor in advance, this does not waive your right for option # 3 (which is plea not guilty and go to trial).

I was trying to figure out what might be a lesser charge than the original one that would inherently come with less points. For example, sometimes speeding tickets are dropped down a notch to a "lighter" charge. Is there anything "lighter" in our case? Specifically, a related (lesser) offense from the Highway Traffic Act.

[vaportech]

Thank you ... I thought I recall seeing something on the ticket that said something to the effect that if you meet with the prosecutor in advance, this does not waive your right for option # 3 (which is plea not guilty and go to trial).

I was trying to figure out what might be a lesser charge than the original one that would inherently come with less points. For example, sometimes speeding tickets are dropped down a notch to a "lighter" charge. Is there anything "lighter" in our case?

Reduced fine and no points.

[sillysimms]

And also note unless you have other points, don't worry too much about the points. Insurers don't look at or care about points. Points are ONLY for Ministry use and you need 6 points before they even send you a letter (a license suspension is 15 points, although at 9 points they may have you in for an interview).

As for insurance, which is the big concern with tickets, it is the conviction the insurers care about (a minor ticket is a minor ticket regardless of the offence), but they don't look at or care about points.