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Need help with engineered hardwood floor

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Oct 12, 2010
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Need help with engineered hardwood floor

:cry:

I recently installed engineered hardwood flooring in my Condo. The work was done by a proper installer who owns a decent sized shop and has some reviews on home star. I noticed that the floor creaks right after the installation. I brought it up to the installer and was told that the floor is new, so it will creak for a bit until everything is settled.

So far it's been a week, the floor still creaks. I don't have any furniture in it because the condo is still vacant waiting for more renovation. I do walk on it quite often everyday when i am working in the condo. It creaks on every step I take. A couple of spots even make cracking/popping sound. I complained to the installer and he sent one of his staff to check out the problem. I basically told him that, I will accept the work if he can find ONE spot that doesn't creak. He walked around and said that the noise will subside when i put furniture in the condo. He was pretty blunt and told me that there is nothing to be done about the flooring, the installation was good, it has nothing to do with the workmanship and the material used.

The concrete slab in my condo is not that flat. There are high spots where you can feel by just walking on it. I also read about how floating floor will always make noise. But I honestly wasn't expecting it to creak on every step. Regarding putting in furniture, there is a small corridor/hallway that leads into the living room. It's narrow and I will never be able to place any furniture there.

I made numerous calls to the installer over the weekend. He finally agrees that, if i can get an independent inspector to check out the floor and write up a report, then they will compensate me based on the report. I.e. they will install it again for free if the report says it's the workmanship. Or they will help me to file warranty claim against the manufacturer if the report says it's the material.

TL;DR
Does anyone know where I can find a certified inspector of this sort? Someone who does inspection of hardwood flooring? Thanks in advance !!
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Oct 28, 2004
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ricerocket123 wrote: The concrete slab in my condo is not that flat. There are high spots where you can feel by just walking on it. I also read about how floating floor will always make noise. But I honestly wasn't expecting it to creak on every step. Regarding putting in furniture, there is a small corridor/hallway that leads into the living room. It's narrow and I will never be able to place any furniture there.
the bolded is a big big problem.....


No matter how good the installer or the engineered floor - the concrete floor should have been pretty flat before installing.


Given that this is a floating floor with nothing holding down the floor (i.e. cleats, glue etc), any peaks and valleys underneath will cause the flooring to creak (just seems common sense).


If the concrete floor was bad and it has peaks and valleys (and you knew about it), you should have asked the management board if you can get someone to smooth out the concrete floor.

I live in a condo and my installer assessed the concrete floor after he ripped out the carpet. He said the concrete was very flat and in good condition....


He installed the engineered floor and for the most part, it was pretty much creak free. The first few weeks did require a bit of "settling down" but having lived there for 2 years now, all creaks are gone.

Only time I noticed any problems was the engineered floor right outside the bathroom....I think because of the steam from the showers and also some moisture from walking out of the bathroom still wet, the moisture caused the flooring to lift a little...


Not sure if it is worth while for you to take out the flooring and get the concrete flattened out first before re-installing....otherwise, you can put area rugs all over the place to cover the floor...


Gluck!
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You hit on the keys of your situation. The condo floor is not perfectly flat. That will leave some gaps and it will make noise as you walk on it.
Having said that, if you have no furniture in it, there is nothing to hold the floor down to the substrate (the concrete floor). Once you get some weight on it, the floor will stop making noise.
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Pete_Coach wrote: You hit on the keys of your situation. The condo floor is not perfectly flat. That will leave some gaps and it will make noise as you walk on it.
Having said that, if you have no furniture in it, there is nothing to hold the floor down to the substrate (the concrete floor). Once you get some weight on it, the floor will stop making noise.
Thanks for replying, ji2o0k and Pete_Coach.

I don't know how the manufacturer of those engineered flooring can expect a perfectly flat floor to work with. I lived in 3 different condos with hardwood floor and none of them make any noise. So i didn't even know the "creaking" problem exists in the first place. Have I known better, I would probably choose to glue them down instead of floating :(
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ricerocket123 wrote: How do i apply the lube? Do you mean taking apart the planks first?
It's just a silly joke from him.

The floor in my house still cracks and pops after 4 years when the weather changes - I've just accepted it. My dad installed a floating engineered hardwood floor and he glued the boards together with padding underneath it - it doesn't make much noise. The other rooms seem to be glued to the concrete.

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ricerocket123 wrote: Thanks for replying, ji2o0k and Pete_Coach.

I don't know how the manufacturer of those engineered flooring can expect a perfectly flat floor to work with. I lived in 3 different condos with hardwood floor and none of them make any noise. So i didn't even know the "creaking" problem exists in the first place. Have I known better, I would probably choose to glue them down instead of floating :(
did the previous condos have the hardwood floor put in by developer?
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gilboman wrote: did the previous condos have the hardwood floor put in by developer?
The living room of previous condos came with hardwood floor. I am not sure if they are from the builder, but they feel really stiff and never made any noise anywhere. However, the bedrooms were done after I moved in. They don't make any noise either. I mean zero noise. Not even occasionally. When I walk on them, they feel almost as if they are the concrete floor. They do however have dampening pads as required by condo management.
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ricerocket123 wrote: Thanks for replying, ji2o0k and Pete_Coach.
I don't know how the manufacturer of those engineered flooring can expect a perfectly flat floor to work with. I lived in 3 different condos with hardwood floor and none of them make any noise. So i didn't even know the "creaking" problem exists in the first place. Have I known better, I would probably choose to glue them down instead of floating :(
There are many types of laminated or engineered flooring, as you probably know. Many factors come into play on the way the floor reacts to being laid on a surface.
Perhaps you chose a product that was too thin, or not quite a higher quality? Perhaps you chose a underlay that was not thick enough to fill minor gaps? Perhaps even, it was laid in a direction that would make sounds more pronounced (very long length of boards as opposed to shorter spans)?
Lastly, I think that you were smart not to glue the flooring down. If you did that it would be difficult to ever get it down right and you would have wavy floor.
Really, just wait till you get some furniture on the floor and I think you will be just fine.
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Is the floor T&G glue or click? If T&G glue, wrong adhesive might have been used.

Some floors can creak when exposed to a lot of sun (lots of windows) sort of a drying effect. It may also be too tight to the walls. The imperfections in the subfloor don't help. But sometimes you just can't explain why it happens.
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If the substrate, ie the concrete floor in your case, is not flat then the floor will creak. If the floor had been glued down this will alleviate the creaking somewhat.

The floor creaks because it is able to move. That will not change over time. The concrete substrate should have been leveled before the floor was installed. The installer is an idiot.
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It's important to have a flat subfloor but not every condo will let you touch the subfloor or allow you to glue down the floor, many times it's floating only with condo specified underlay! Glued down floors will help but at the same time most homeowners don't want to pay for extra labour and high glue prices!

I assume OP confirmed with condo management about proper requirements before work began...
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patrob wrote: It's important to have a flat subfloor but not every condo will let you touch the subfloor or allow you to glue down the floor, many times it's floating only with condo specified underlay! Glued down floors will help but at the same time most homeowners don't want to pay for extra labour and high glue prices!

I assume OP confirmed with condo management about proper requirements before work began...
I am surprised that condos would have rules on whether you are allowed to glue down a floor. But, the glue is cheap and easy to apply. It's the levelling that costs a lot of money as you need a very skilled person to accomplish it properly.
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eonibm wrote: I am surprised that condos would have rules on whether you are allowed to glue down a floor. But, the glue is cheap and easy to apply. It's the levelling that costs a lot of money as you need a very skilled person to accomplish it properly.
There could be chemicals in some adhesives that could damage the integrity of the concrete or sealers on it. I know a rule in a condo of a friend theta requires a very particular type of underlay so there is little or no noise transmission.
I still think that once you get weight on the flooring, most of the noises will go away. You will never get rid of them all, I even have noises every once in a while (Winter particularity) on my real hardwood (nailed down) floor.
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eonibm wrote: I am surprised that condos would have rules on whether you are allowed to glue down a floor. But, the glue is cheap and easy to apply. It's the levelling that costs a lot of money as you need a very skilled person to accomplish it properly.
The proper moisture glue adhesive is more than $100-150 per pail so it's not cheap. You cannot use cheap parquet adhesive for this type of installation. Also specialized sound proofing is required which has also has to be glued down. So it all adds up! Some condos are very strict and don't want you to play with the slab.
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what type and brand engineered floor was it?
my sister had a similar problem but her's was laminate
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Pete_Coach wrote: There could be chemicals in some adhesives that could damage the integrity of the concrete or sealers on it. I know a rule in a condo of a friend theta requires a very particular type of underlay so there is little or no noise transmission.
I still think that once you get weight on the flooring, most of the noises will go away. You will never get rid of them all, I even have noises every once in a while (Winter particularity) on my real hardwood (nailed down) floor.
There are specific glues used to glue down engineered flooring and they do not have chemicals in them that could damage the concrete. Also, a sealer is applied before applying the glue that further avoids any possbility of this. Any condo that has such a rule barring glue down has no basis for it.
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eonibm wrote: There are specific glues used to glue down engineered flooring and they do not have chemicals in them that could damage the concrete. Also, a sealer is applied before applying the glue that further avoids any possbility of this. Any condo that has such a rule barring glue down has no basis for it.
You may be right about the glue but the regulations probably has to do with noise transmission more then the adhesive. A noise barrier (be it foam or other material) between the floor and laminate would making gluing down the floor impossible.
If you have ever been in an apartment where there is no noise barrier required and you hear every footstep from above, you will appreciate the rule. :)
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Pete_Coach wrote: A noise barrier (be it foam or other material) between the floor and laminate would making gluing down the floor impossible.
For glue down floors the barrier has to be glued down to concrete then the floor glued to it like on cork or solid underlay. This is done mainly for eng. hardwood. There are glues solvent based like Titebond which also give you a sound barrier if proper trowel is used. And they are eco friendly and even have a pleasant smell :D
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