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Oct 3, 2006
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Nevermind mods can lock/delete

nevermind.
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Aug 19, 2013
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It's actually a myth that people in the US pay less taxes. It really depends on where in the US you are. Some stated have much higher taxes then others. In the higher tax states you are probably paying more taxes then you would in Canada. Add pating for a health care plan and you will almost always be paying more in the US. They have that expensive army to pay for :) .
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Jun 3, 2006
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Aznsilvrboy wrote: According to this calculator http://simpletax.ca/calculator it should be about $55k.

No investments, no RRSP. Just CPP, EI, and company health insurance of about $50 a month. Does anyone actually get that much? I'm just wondering because before I moved to the U.S for work, people always said how taxes in the U.S are lower but my net income is less than that even though I make slightly more (gross). Instead of CPP and EI, I get deducted Federal/State income tax, Social Security Tax, and health insurance (medicare + company plan).
Think your $55k number is a bit high... Try these brackets instead.

http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/on.htm
Banned
Jan 11, 2004
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sunshinemoonlight13 wrote: Another myth is the so called 'superior free Canadian healthcare'.
How is it a myth? No job in Canada still get healthcare

No job or not great job in states? No healthcare for you
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May 17, 2013
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gilboman wrote: How is it a myth? No job in Canada still get healthcare

No job or not great job in states? No healthcare for you
Its not superior to the rest of the world. In terms of equipment and skill, its argued you get better care when you pay for it in the states with some hospitals.

In terms of the government covering almost all costs involved in healthcare including medication, that would be places like the UK. Infact, even non-citizens can get healthcare and why people are known to abuse the system. Thats a true socialized healthcare over there. Or places like Hong Kong that have a similar system to the UK.

As for Canadian healthcare? Free? Not really. Wait times are bad. Hospital staff prioritize. You pay for your own medicine bills. News of hospitals not washing equipment properly or reusing syringes. Its ridiculous actually for a developed nation.
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Aug 19, 2013
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sunshinemoonlight13 wrote: Its not superior to the rest of the world. In terms of equipment and skill, its argued you get better care when you pay for it in the states with some hospitals.

In terms of the government covering almost all costs involved in healthcare including medication, that would be places like the UK. Infact, even non-citizens can get healthcare and why people are known to abuse the system. Thats a true socialized healthcare over there. Or places like Hong Kong that have a similar system to the UK.

As for Canadian healthcare? Free? Not really. Wait times are bad. Hospital staff prioritize. You pay for your own medicine bills. News of hospitals not washing equipment properly or reusing syringes. Its ridiculous actually for a developed nation.
And none of that ever happens in the profit driven US lol. No instead you have someone who has never been to med school who works at an HMO telling you that you don't really need the treatment for cancer that your doctor has just suggested so they aren't going to pay for it. And now you have a choice. Shell out $100,000s or possibly die. Sorry I will take our system faults and all. No system is perfect.
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May 17, 2013
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Momof3cuties wrote: And none of that ever happens in the profit driven US lol. No instead you have someone who has never been to med school who works at an HMO telling you that you don't really need the treatment for cancer that your doctor has just suggested so they aren't going to pay for it. And now you have a choice. Shell out $100,000s or possibly die. Sorry I will take our system faults and all. No system is perfect.
Its not actually as bad as you make it out to be.

If you work, you may have health coverage from work. Or you can pay for private healthcare insurance. You don't need to 'shell out $100Gs' every time you get sick. Most of those stories are people who don't buy insurance and got stick. Its a shame but its what it is. Its a capitalistic free economy. This is how it works. If you rent a car and you opt out of the optional full coverage, and you total the car, you pay for it. If you had insurance coverage paid, you lose at max the deductible.

And its the doctors that still decide whether someone should get treatment. Actually, the argument is that insurance providers pressure doctors into putting a quota on their recommendations. Its ultimately an MD that gets to make decisions of whether someone should get healthcare or not. What you said is simply incorrect.

In Hong Kong, they have both government healthcare and private healthcare. You can go both routes. Superior to Canada again in this front.

The fact is the Canadian healthcare system is not the superior solution people make it out to be. Hardly. Actually, you'd find that with the Canadian healthcare, they too will basically send you away or at the back of the line because they have to prioritize their resources also while the hospitals are understaffed and underfunded. And whats with the news of hospital staff reusing syringes? I mean come on now. How did they even get a nursing degree with those sorts of practices?
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Jan 14, 2006
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Momof3cuties wrote: And none of that ever happens in the profit driven US lol. No instead you have someone who has never been to med school who works at an HMO telling you that you don't really need the treatment for cancer that your doctor has just suggested so they aren't going to pay for it. And now you have a choice. Shell out $100,000s or possibly die. Sorry I will take our system faults and all. No system is perfect.
Yep. I always get reminded of a story that my patient told me when I was working as a RN. He said that he paid $150,000 for a major procedure + hospital stay in the states.
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Jan 11, 2004
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sunshinemoonlight13 wrote: Its not superior to the rest of the world. In terms of equipment and skill, its argued you get better care when you pay for it in the states with some hospitals.

In terms of the government covering almost all costs involved in healthcare including medication, that would be places like the UK. Infact, even non-citizens can get healthcare and why people are known to abuse the system. Thats a true socialized healthcare over there. Or places like Hong Kong that have a similar system to the UK.

As for Canadian healthcare? Free? Not really. Wait times are bad. Hospital staff prioritize. You pay for your own medicine bills. News of hospitals not washing equipment properly or reusing syringes. Its ridiculous actually for a developed nation.
You are a very confused person
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Jan 11, 2004
19816 posts
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sunshinemoonlight13 wrote: Its not actually as bad as you make it out to be.

If you work, you may have health coverage from work. Or you can pay for private healthcare insurance. You don't need to 'shell out $100Gs' every time you get sick. Most of those stories are people who don't buy insurance and got stick. Its a shame but its what it is. Its a capitalistic free economy. This is how it works. If you rent a car and you opt out of the optional full coverage, and you total the car, you pay for it. If you had insurance coverage paid, you lose at max the deductible.

And its the doctors that still decide whether someone should get treatment. Actually, the argument is that insurance providers pressure doctors into putting a quota on their recommendations. Its ultimately an MD that gets to make decisions of whether someone should get healthcare or not. What you said is simply incorrect.

In Hong Kong, they have both government healthcare and private healthcare. You can go both routes. Superior to Canada again in this front.

The fact is the Canadian healthcare system is not the superior solution people make it out to be. Hardly. Actually, you'd find that with the Canadian healthcare, they too will basically send you away or at the back of the line because they have to prioritize their resources also while the hospitals are understaffed and underfunded. And whats with the news of hospital staff reusing syringes? I mean come on now. How did they even get a nursing degree with those sorts of practices?
I've used healthcare in hong Kong in both private and public and the states as well because I'm a HK permenant resident, had a us green card with health insurance and also have had family members used all the systems extensively

Nobody is saying canadas public system is superior or even comparable to the top notch private facilities because it isn't even close. At the same time, its largely sufficient and you do receive care in a timely manner. The elective stuff does take longer than the top private facilities..but for "free" the care you receive is superior to Hkg or the us for an average person.

Myself and relatives always use private in Hkg or us because the public ones are truly horrid if available as well, in Canada not so. My parents could easily goto private care in states or Asia but have no hesitation to be treated here and no, its not due to cost.

My mom had a mammogram that was clear but she felt a small lump that she wanted further examined, doctor said it was nth but can go see the specialist for piece of mind. This would never be allowed under our private plan in the states. She saw specialist in 3 days because she had to go on a trip in a week, they did a pin biopsy and got results in a day and needed to do a bigger sample and got her in next day. She was able to go on her trip and they called her with the results.

My dad shattered his wrist on a fall in ottaw at night, went to hospital and they called in the orthopedic surgeon, anesthesiologist and the head emergency room doctor to do reduction and we were out in 3 hrs, and went to follow up in Toronto and they provided all records and CD images of xray voluntarily for us. My dad received prompt care in Toronto for the 8 week followup with weekly adjustment from the orthopedic specialist as well.

In hong Kong even at a paying private hospital I've been several times and wont get such great care and in states? Goto insurance assigned doctor and wait and let them coordinate coverage while I wait.

No we are not on par with mayo clinic here but it is far from being inferior to healthcare available to paying let alone free healthcare in us or Hkg.

But more appalling than your complete lack of understanding is you equate personal illness and health problems to renting a car for people who do not have coverage in other countries. Renting a car is voluntary and discretionary along with the insurance. Nobody chooses to be sick or not be able to afford adequate coverage and face the reality of not being able to treat very treatable ailments just because they happen to be poor.
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Jul 16, 2003
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Those complaining about the healthcare they get in Canada for "free" (paid through taxes) should experience the "free" (also paid by taxes) quality care of a 3rd world country, before they decide how "bad" it is here.

I was born and raised in Brazil, and public hospitals there often run out of gauze. There are endless cases where people die waiting for assistance, after sitting in the aisles with a bullet in their heads for 28 hours and not even a nurse came to check them. Patients sit on the floor, die and the hospital staff only notices them after a day or so (of them being dead!). Doctors get paid by the government and many of them have 2-3 jobs in other private hospitals, so they choose to simply not show up 4 out of the 5 days they are on schedule, so if another doctor does the same in the same hospital we may have a fairly big hospital with nurses and technician but no surgeons or any specialists.

The canadian system is far from perfect, but in the 17 years I have been here I always got proper care when I needed. Friends of mine had the same experience. Not everyone likes to wait for an exam, but I have never heard of people in Canada dying without assistance at least.
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May 17, 2013
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gilboman wrote: You are a very confused person
I think you are. You are losing focus. What is this? The topic hit a heart string and you're crying your heart out over the topic?

I said the Canadian healthcare is not superior to the rest of the world. You can quote me on that line. I did not say Canadian healthcare is otherwise incapable or is worst than third world conditions. The fact is the Canadian healthcare system is put on a pedestal for its so called 'free healthcare' so much so that politicians in the south want to 'replicate the system here'.

It is not superior. Plus and minuses on both sides.
gilboman wrote: I've used healthcare in hong Kong in both private and public and the states as well because I'm a HK permenant resident, had a us green card with health insurance and also have had family members used all the systems extensively

Nobody is saying canadas public system is superior or even comparable to the top notch private facilities because it isn't even close. At the same time, its largely sufficient and you do receive care in a timely manner. The elective stuff does take longer than the top private facilities..but for "free" the care you receive is superior to Hkg or the us for an average person.

Myself and relatives always use private in Hkg or us because the public ones are truly horrid if available as well, in Canada not so. My parents could easily goto private care in states or Asia but have no hesitation to be treated here and no, its not due to cost.

My mom had a mammogram that was clear but she felt a small lump that she wanted further examined, doctor said it was nth but can go see the specialist for piece of mind. This would never be allowed under our private plan in the states. She saw specialist in 3 days because she had to go on a trip in a week, they did a pin biopsy and got results in a day and needed to do a bigger sample and got her in next day. She was able to go on her trip and they called her with the results.

My dad shattered his wrist on a fall in ottaw at night, went to hospital and they called in the orthopedic surgeon, anesthesiologist and the head emergency room doctor to do reduction and we were out in 3 hrs, and went to follow up in Toronto and they provided all records and CD images of xray voluntarily for us. My dad received prompt care in Toronto for the 8 week followup with weekly adjustment from the orthopedic specialist as well.

In hong Kong even at a paying private hospital I've been several times and wont get such great care and in states? Goto insurance assigned doctor and wait and let them coordinate coverage while I wait.

No we are not on par with mayo clinic here but it is far from being inferior to healthcare available to paying let alone free healthcare in us or Hkg.
Wow, thanks for your personal report that Canadian doctors actually know how to heal people and actually do agree to provide health care services that the taxpayers have paid for. Who would have thought right? I mean, he got an x-ray and everything... just wow.

Clearly you just hit some heart string and yapping off. After you wipe those tears maybe you will realize that the point made in this post was about the healthcare system here being far from perfect. Hence another 'myth' as per the original discussion. And from your discussion it seems you agree its not perfect either so I dont know why you're crying. Just like the myth that Canadians pay ridiculous taxes compared with the rest of the developed world. Clearly there is no perfect healthcare system anywhere in the world and nobody is saying such.

First of all the Cdn healthcare system isnt even a real socialist system. For that, we look to the UK. They treat anybody including non-residents. So the Cdn system is not that. As for paid service, they have better facilities in the US than they do in Canada, afterall, their engineers build most of the medical machines, their pharma/biotech companies do the R&D and produce many of those drugs, but most importantly is their capitalistic economy is much more robust and can afford to finance fancy hospitals thanks to capitalism where money speaks.

What if you are sick and want to get ahead of the line and get surgery or healthcare right away? Here, you can't. You wait in line here. In the US or in Hong Kong, where there is private healthcare, money speaks. So you can pay your way to seek your survival if that is what you so desire. Afterall, if you are financially capable and have amassed a fortune from a life of productivity, paying money out of your own pocket to defend your own life is your prerogative and privileged that you have earned for yourself. So you don't have to sit there and wait. Some people prefer this option also, hence why there are many able Canadians who actually travel to the US for medical treatment.

Youre not going to like it but we do have first, business and economy class tickets. But sure, lets give everyone the same opportunity so everyone should ride in coach.
But more appalling than your complete lack of understanding is you equate personal illness and health problems to renting a car for people who do not have coverage in other countries. Renting a car is voluntary and discretionary along with the insurance. Nobody chooses to be sick or not be able to afford adequate coverage and face the reality of not being able to treat very treatable ailments just because they happen to be poor.
You're not seeing the big picture. That wasnt the point.

Nobody is equating illness to car rentals. In the latter case, nobody wants to get into auto accidents either but its besides the point. Its an analogy not to be taken at face value. The point was people can have a choice of paying for private insurance in the US. If you opt not to pay for the insurance, then you don't have to as its not mandatory, but you will risk the consequences. Thats how the insurance industry works.

So its like a car rental. You are not obligated to drive a rental while paying full coverage from the rental provider, or even to have your own private auto insurance to cover any damages. But you run the risk of paying heavily if you get into an accident and damage the rental car. Its the same for health care there. They have private insurance you can pay for. They also have government programs to certain groups of people who qualify. Otherwise, if you are a working and able person, and you choose not to buy insurance, then you take your chances.

Many of those stories where you hear people shelling out $100Gs on healthcare without proper insurance, or people needing to declare bankruptcy when they get sick because of hospital bills? Many of those cases are able-body folks who chose to live in their own country knowing that is how their system of healthcare is set up, but consciously decided not buy insurance coverage to save a few bucks. They lived on the edge. They got away with it for many years until they didnt and got sick, and the medical bills became insurmountable and all of a sudden that insurance bill didnt look so bad.
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May 17, 2013
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laptop-tech wrote: Those complaining about the healthcare they get in Canada for "free" (paid through taxes) should experience the "free" (also paid by taxes) quality care of a 3rd world country, before they decide how "bad" it is here.

I was born and raised in Brazil, and public hospitals there often run out of gauze. There are endless cases where people die waiting for assistance, after sitting in the aisles with a bullet in their heads for 28 hours and not even a nurse came to check them. Patients sit on the floor, die and the hospital staff only notices them after a day or so (of them being dead!). Doctors get paid by the government and many of them have 2-3 jobs in other private hospitals, so they choose to simply not show up 4 out of the 5 days they are on schedule, so if another doctor does the same in the same hospital we may have a fairly big hospital with nurses and technician but no surgeons or any specialists.

The canadian system is far from perfect, but in the 17 years I have been here I always got proper care when I needed. Friends of mine had the same experience. Not everyone likes to wait for an exam, but I have never heard of people in Canada dying without assistance at least.
Who is complaining the healthcare is bad here? Nobody. The point is the Canadian healthcare system, that is often put on a pedestal, is not the perfect system people make out to be and that was the point. There is no perfect health care system anywhere, certainly not in canada, hence another 'myth' as per the original discussion leading up to the off-tangent contentions. So the point you just made, along with the other poster, is simply moot yapping away about something else because the topic pulled some emotional heartstring.
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Feb 11, 2010
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sunshinemoonlight13 wrote: I said the Canadian healthcare is not superior to the rest of the world. You can quote me on that line.
Nobody here claimed it was superior to anything. You're the one that inserted that statement into this thread. In any debates or arguments about the Canadian health care system that I've read, overheard or had personally this claim about being superior to the rest of the world has never even remotely come up. You've built this up in your mind. Go back and read gilboman's post carefully. Take the time to comprehend it if that is at all possible for you.

One more tip for you - when someone says they'll take our version of health care over the American (or any other) system, it doesn't mean they feel that the level of care is superior. It's really that simple.
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May 17, 2013
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Jor wrote: Nobody here claimed it was superior to anything. You're the one that inserted that statement into this thread. In any debates or arguments about the Canadian health care system that I've read, overheard or had personally this claim about being superior to the rest of the world has never even remotely come up. You've built this up in your mind. Go back and read gilboman's post carefully. Take the time to comprehend it if that is at all possible for you.

One more tip for you - when someone says they'll take our version of health care over the American (or any other) system, it doesn't mean they feel that the level of care is superior. It's really that simple.
You don't comprehend situations very well do you? Why don't you start from the beginning and work your way down. Take your time. Breath a little.

I said the healthcare system here is not superior originally. Are you with me? Right, so thats what I said. So do you agree or not? It seems to me they actually agree with that original statement. It is not perfect. Great. Then they go off a tangent and spew out a bunch of emotional stuff about how free healthcare is great and this and that. And then you come along to dip your toes in. Ultimately they took the topic off on a tangent. I've only said its not perfect. And u dun have to be a rocket scientist to realize there is no perfect healthcare. So its an obvious statement. Then whats the problem? Whats with the disagreement? It seems they just needed to let off some steam. Looks like you do too, trying to play jury. Let me know if you need another cookie.
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Aug 14, 2009
321 posts
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sunshinemoonlight13 wrote: You don't comprehend situations very well do you? Why don't you start from the beginning and work your way down. Take your time. Breath a little.

I said the healthcare system here is not superior originally. Are you with me? Right, so thats what I said. So do you agree or not? It seems to me they actually agree with that original statement. It is not perfect. Great. Then they go off a tangent and spew out a bunch of emotional stuff about how free healthcare is great and this and that. And then you come along to dip your toes in. Ultimately they took the topic off on a tangent. I've only said its not perfect. And u dun have to be a rocket scientist to realize there is no perfect healthcare. So its an obvious statement. Then whats the problem? Whats with the disagreement? It seems they just needed to let off some steam. Looks like you do too, trying to play jury. Let me know if you need another cookie.
We don't have free healthcare here. It is not user-pay but it is most definitely not free. I think it is the universality of our healthcare (all income levels can access relatively similar levels of service without discrimination by ability to pay - notwithstanding socioeconomic barriers to access) is what appeals to many when they trumpet the Canadian system, not the superiority of the healthcare system.

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