New grad working in Germany - ask here.

[Aristophanes]

In response to this thread:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/s...d.php?t=621868

It seems that people are interested in working in Europe. I promised I'd answer some questions. You may ask me specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

My background
Someone will undoubtedly ask this.
Taiwanese Canadian. Did a BSc at UT. Right after, I went to do an MBA at Mac. I graduated Dec '07. Recruited and relocated by a German company. Will begin work this fall in Germany. It took me 6 months to find it without any help from agencies, other people, or connections. I speak English, Mandarin, Taiwanese, and now some German.

Why Europe?
Ask yourself why you want a job in Europe? Obviously, there are many reasons why you’d want to go. The international exposure? The opportunity to see Europe while you’re young? Earn mighty €'s? Have a PURPOSE before you start applying. A real purpose. It takes a lot of time and effort. Trust me on this. You’ll also need a lot of motivation. Focus on what it is that keeps you motivated…or else those rejection letters will start piling up and you’ll become demoralized before you know it. Lastly, are you specialized in a specific field or are highly educated? If no, it’d be extremely difficult. Even with a Masters degree, I received 100s of rejection letters.

What I can answer/know:
- jobs in Germany
- if you're a new graduate from university
- resume
- how I did it
- resources (though, you should research this yourself.)
- where to look
- what to do AFTER you got the job

What I can't/won't answer:
- where I'm working
- what I'll be doing
- work permit/visa process
- if you're an experienced worker

Ask away.

Edit: 6 months later

More on the job front. The economy is really bad in Germany right now. All of Europe is suffering. My company's laid off many workers, including white collar.

But if you're an engineer or IT specialist, there are still opportunities.

From the PMs over the past 6 months, I often see the same questions over and over again. So, to answer them...

- Go for practical trainings or internships as your foot in the door
- Big firms are impossible to get in without help. Target medium sized companies. Siemens and Phillip's is nice and all but there are others
- Their Bachelor system is only 3 years (at least from the people I know). But they have a degree called the Diplom (being phased out), which is essentially something between a Bachelor and Master. So, you should have a Master or higher if you did not finish from Eng/IT
- Asia's expanding - good if you know Chinese, but not essential
- Knowing other languages is nice but your English should be perfect. I have been doing global corporate strategy and global corporate supply chain/capacity management. All the documents are in English. Key word is global.

Happy to entertain more questions. I definitely have more knowledge of the the job market now.

Edit 2
Specify in title - Germany. More on IT, biz on page 4.

[steevee]

What makes overseas graduates attractive to foreign employers? Besides grads from the best of the best universities, whom everyone wants to hire, what can Canadian graduates offer?

[cgtlky]

Are IT jobs in demand in Germany? Can I apply if I don't know how to speak German language?

[patron]

are accountng positions in demand in Germany?

[Aristophanes]

What makes overseas graduates attractive to foreign employers? Besides grads from the best of the best universities, whom everyone wants to hire, what can Canadian graduates offer?

Best thing about Canada is it's multiculturalism, especially in huge city centres like Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. Many people are multilingual. Many big German firms want to get a piece of the action in India and China so they need people that know the culture, as well as the language. But you may say that they can just recruit locally in those countries. They do. The official language in many firms (ie Siemens, Bosch, etc.) is English. So, they need people that are fluent in English as well.

Something new I found out this week was that to do an MBA or any higher education in business, one must have done business in their undergrad. Coming from a science undergrad degree and a graduate business degree certainly made me more attractive.

I will think about this some more today. It's too early to think right now.

Are IT jobs in demand in Germany? Can I apply if I don't know how to speak German language?

Depends on what kind of IT. I'm not in this field so I can't answer that. Though, I know the company I work for has many foreign IT workers from India.

Yes, you can apply if you don't know German. I didn't know German when I applied. Again, if the official language of the firm is English, you should have no problem. They'd still like you to integrate so they will send you to German language lessons if you're recruited. BTW, German is ridiculously difficult.

are accountng positions in demand in Germany?

Sorry, I'm not in this field so I don't know. But I know their accounting system is different. From what I remember from accounting (which isn't a lot), North America uses a different accounting method. Here, they use the international one (IFRS). BUT, they have a lot of American/Canadian expats as their Controllers here. I would imagine that they need them to make sense of the financial statements coming from their US/Canadian divisions.


I can probably better answer questions regarding the application process.

[manixc]

where in Germany are you?

I was in Hannover, Germany for Co-op for about 8 months and yeah, German is HARD!

[Aristophanes]

where in Germany are you?

I was in Hannover, Germany for Co-op for about 8 months and yeah, German is HARD!

I'm in Leverkusen, which is 13 minutes north of Cologne by train.

[manixc]

I'm in Leverkusen, which is 13 minutes north of Cologne by train.

Cologne's a fun city. Living in Europe is the best way to see it.

[IBOPM]

How do you start applying to these companies in the first place? Do you have to find their international website instead of their north american one? What specifically can I do to seek out potential employers.

[en]

Can you post some answers to the list that you initially provided.

i.e.

What I can answer/know:
- jobs in Germany
- if you're a new graduate from university
- resume
- how I did it
- resources (though, you should research this yourself.)
- where to look
- what to do AFTER you got the job

I tried using Google as a place to start but from that you usually end up on a company's corporate recruiting website where you can submit your resume but it usually ends up in the abyss. How did you get around that?

Another thing about job postings for foreign website/companies is that they usually say you must have authorization to work in that country (especially for European countries where they say the applicant must come from the E.U. zone). How did you find positions where they welcome foreign applicants?

Regarding new graduates, what kind of information can you give?

Also regarding the resume, do they usually accept the standard American style resume?

[Aristophanes]

How do you start applying to these companies in the first place? Do you have to find their international website instead of their north american one? What specifically can I do to seek out potential employers.

There are just so many multinationals to choose from. Of course every knows the big ones ie Siemens, BMW, etc. (btw, I'm only using German references). These guys are high profile. There are many other multinationals that you don't know of. Try looking there. That's how I started. I realized that I am unable to compete in the big times (yet). So, I only targeted low profile multinationals (example below), medium sized companies, and emerging companies on the brink of becoming big. Also target a specific industry. It makes life easier.

As for the website, go for their country website. The problem here is that the jobs will be in the domestic language. In my case, German. That's when Google translation comes in. In many jobs descriptions, English is a definite requirement. i.e. SAP. Yet, the majority of postings on sap.de are in German. It doesn't hurt to apply. As I said before, I have literally over a hundred rejection letters/emails. But you only need just one to say "you're hired". Warning: Resume styles are different. (Will address this when I respond to en's questions).

Specifically, I would suggest you as seek out an industry that interests you. Then, think of the big names. ie Automotives. There is Magna International (everyone in Canada knows this). From there, keep looking for other multinational parts suppliers. In Germany, there are two big ones. Continenal AG and ZF Friedrichshafen. They supply parts to...BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW. Hmm...this isn't too far away from mech eng. Then, you keep searching. You'll probably stumble upon Airbus and Eurofighter, both near Munich. Keep digging. You'll find there are so many companies out there that you've never heard of. If you're an engineer, you have a better chance of securing a position. They pride themselves in their engineering marvels.

en, I'll answer your questions this afternoon. They're more specific but I'm glad to answer them.

[DeltasInTheSky]

This isn't specific to Europe, but countries abroad in general. What makes you more attractive to them, being educated from a Canadian school in general, or a more renowned Canadian school?

Let me give you an example. One of my cousins is immigrating to Canada, he's going to York Atkinson. I told him, it doesn't have the greatest reputation in Canada. But he said in UAE, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc. The fact you went to a Canadian school, is good as it is. Apparently you get wined and dined and the red-carpet treatment

[Aristophanes]

Sorry for the late reply. I've been short on time. I'll answer the rest of en's questions later (those other bullet points)

I tried using Google as a place to start but from that you usually end up on a company's corporate recruiting website where you can submit your resume but it usually ends up in the abyss. How did you get around that?

I did that initially with larger companies. They all got swallowed up or it took 5 months for them to get back to me.

As mentioned in my previous post, I started aiming for smaller firms. They don't have sophisticated recruiting softwares set up yet. They usually provide an email. I got more responses (rejections) faster.

Another thing about job postings for foreign website/companies is that they usually say you must have authorization to work in that country (especially for European countries where they say the applicant must come from the E.U. zone). How did you find positions where they welcome foreign applicants?

I only targeted multinational companies. Not just any multinational. Only multinationals that could use my skill set for their international operations/expansion.

Regarding new graduates, what kind of information can you give?

Can you be more specific?
As a new grad, you should have [but not limited to] the following...
- spent at least 1 semester abroad (this is a requirement for a lot of international positions in Germany)
- specialized skill
- Master degree or greater
- multiple languages
- know a lot about the culture of the country you'd like to work in
- work experience during your schooling (part-time, co-op, etc.). ideally with a big multinational firm.
- a reason why you want a job abroad

Also regarding the resume, do they usually accept the standard American style resume?

Nope. Google this. I lost my bookmarks. Stupid Firefox. I tried RC3 a few months ago then reinstalled FF2. When FF3 final came out, all the bookmarks since my reinstallation of FF2 disappeared.

What is different:
- cover page
- photo of yourself
- birth date
- place of birth
- itemized experiences without description

Many of these items are illegal in North America...

[ranjeet2000]

In response to this thread:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/s...d.php?t=621868

It seems that people are interested in working in Europe. I promised I'd answer some questions. You may ask me specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

My background
Someone will undoubtedly ask this.
Taiwanese Canadian. Did a BSc at UT. Right after, I went to do an MBA at Mac. I graduated Dec '07. Recruited and relocated by a German company. Will begin work this fall in Germany. It took me 6 months to find it without any help from agencies, other people, or connections. I speak English, Mandarin, Taiwanese, and now some German.

Why Europe?
Ask yourself why you want a job in Europe? Obviously, there are many reasons why you’d want to go. The international exposure? The opportunity to see Europe while you’re young? Earn mighty €'s? Have a PURPOSE before you start applying. A real purpose. It takes a lot of time and effort. Trust me on this. You’ll also need a lot of motivation. Focus on what it is that keeps you motivated…or else those rejection letters will start piling up and you’ll become demoralized before you know it. Lastly, are you specialized in a specific field or are highly educated? If no, it’d be extremely difficult. Even with a Masters degree, I received 100s of rejection letters.

What I can answer/know:
- jobs in Germany
- if you're a new graduate from university
- resume
- how I did it
- resources (though, you should research this yourself.)
- where to look
- what to do AFTER you got the job

What I can't/won't answer:
- where I'm working
- what I'll be doing
- work permit/visa process
- if you're an experienced worker

Ask away.

I only have an undergrad degree in science but I want to go into business. Do you recommend internships? or Just applying for the jobs directly? how much work experience do you need to get these jobs? How about companies like SWAP? or AIESEC? or do you have friends that have tried these services?

http://www.swap.ca/ you pay around 300$ for their services(orientation, setting you up, maybe insurance?) and 410$ for the visa fee(normal)

http://www.aiesec.ca/

you said it took you 6 months to get your job abroad, during that time were you working odd jobs? or living at home just applying for jobs?

[b166er1337]

Good thread. I have very similar background as yours. Except I went to Europe on the working holiday visa and stayed for about 9 months.

One question tho, are you moving there permanently?
Or is it just an eye-opener experience?

Also, you probably have like at least 5 or 6 weeks of paid holidays. Enjoy wandering around Europe. Deutschland is amazing! Man, I want to have beer during my lunch break everyday.