Automotive

# On the news, red light camera ticket dispute

• Last Updated:
• Dec 22nd, 2018 8:25 am
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Deal Guru
Oct 5, 2008
10781 posts
Toronto
wartune123 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 11:35 am
Honestly, I've seen wayyyy too many drivers just make a right turn on a red light immediately if they don't see any cars/pedestrian... I almost feel like most people don't treat the red light as a stop sign before you can make the right turn...
yes many people blow through it completely to "beat" the people coming from the left.

I suspect that's what happened here.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 17, 2006
5911 posts
North York
eugene_2005 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 10:24 am
Let me just speculate as I am not really sure what 0.4 secs and 2.1 secs measurements mean. Let's assume you made a complete stop and within 1.7 seconds you reached speed of 30 km/h. That means your acceleration was 4.90 m per sq. secs. or 5.6 secs to get you to 100 km/h which essentially puts you on par with Ford Mustang on a racing track.
You forgot to include the brake time from 30km/h to 0, then 0 to 30km/h. All that within 1.7 sec.
His car is way more than 5.6 sec for 100km/h
Sep 9, 2012
2978 posts
Oakville, ON
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Rolling Stop
Sr. Member
Aug 13, 2006
653 posts
Ottawa
konsensei wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 11:54 am
You forgot to include the brake time from 30km/h to 0, then 0 to 30km/h. All that within 1.7 sec.
His car is way more than 5.6 sec for 100km/h
I am speculating again as I am not 100% sure how it works but as far as I understand 30 km/h is a speed on second photo so the speed on first photo is unknown. System takes measures when car crosses stop line and then again when in the middle of intersection. Knowing time and distance it calculates speed in the middle of intersection. I assumed this scenario in my calculations. Again, I could be wrong.
May 4, 2014
3675 posts
Toronto, ON
Let's ignore whether this guy stopped or not before making his turn.

As a normal driver making a right on red, you must stop, but most people wouldn't stop right at the white line(realistically you only do that during your drive test). You'd stop a little past it so you can get a good look at the intersection. Will that still trip the camera?
Deal Expert
Nov 15, 2004
16273 posts
Toronto
Kevinck wrote:
Aug 11th, 2017 10:25 am
I don't understand all the hate for red light cameras and the "cash grab" insults thrown at them. Putting aside this issue of a small number of possible malfunctions when turning right, we're talking about people running reds. there's a picture of them before the stopline and the light is red. Plus a picture of them past the stop line with the light still red. No dispute they ran a red.
The issue with red light cameras is that the municipality comes to rely on the income they generate and seek to maintain a steady supply of that income, even when people stop running red lights. When people stop breaking the law they just make the laws harder to follow, usually by shortening yellow lights to the point where it becomes unsafe. If you've ever driven near a car with Alberta plates and notice that it slams on its brakes in a panic stop and poses a danger to other cars on the road the second the light turns yellow, now you know why.

http://time.com/3505994/red-light-camer ... s-tickets/
https://nypost.com/2012/10/08/citys-got ... nue-study/
https://www.salon.com/2017/04/05/this-m ... s_partner/

Red light cameras are a disincentive for cities to research ways to actually make roads safer, and heavily incentivize ways for them to make drivers break the rules so they can fine them.
Could HAVE, not could OF. What does 'could of' even mean?
Sr. Member
Aug 13, 2006
653 posts
Ottawa
er34er34 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 1:24 pm
Let's ignore whether this guy stopped or not before making his turn.

As a normal driver making a right on red, you must stop, but most people wouldn't stop right at the white line(realistically you only do that during your drive test). You'd stop a little past it so you can get a good look at the intersection. Will that still trip the camera?
I don't think so. As far as I understand the thing that matters is your speed in the middle of intersection. If your speed 10 km/h there is a reasonable expectation that you've stopped somewhere. If you travel 40 km/h there is no way you could have stopped before intersection.
Now interesting thing would be what if you crawl through the intersection on red at 5 km/h? There is no way for system to know if you stopped and trying to turn right on red or just trying to run a red light at slow speed. I guess it's sorted out manually by operators as all this infractions are reviewed anyway.
Dec 19, 2005
2121 posts
er34er34 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 1:24 pm
Let's ignore whether this guy stopped or not before making his turn.

As a normal driver making a right on red, you must stop, but most people wouldn't stop right at the white line(realistically you only do that during your drive test). You'd stop a little past it so you can get a good look at the intersection. Will that still trip the camera?
eugene_2005 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 2:34 pm
I don't think so. As far as I understand the thing that matters is your speed in the middle of intersection. If your speed 10 km/h there is a reasonable expectation that you've stopped somewhere. If you travel 40 km/h there is no way you could have stopped before intersection.
Now interesting thing would be what if you crawl through the intersection on red at 5 km/h? There is no way for system to know if you stopped and trying to turn right on red or just trying to run a red light at slow speed. I guess it's sorted out manually by operators as all this infractions are reviewed anyway.

There are no sensors in the intersection. The sensors are embedded before the white line.

Those rectangles in the pavement are where the sensors are. They determine if the car is going to run the red based on how fast the the sensors are triggered one after another(I believe this is how the vehicle speed is calculated as well). This will tell the camera to snap 2 pics; one with the vehicle just as the car crosses the line, and one where it's in the intersection.
Last edited by Zephyr22b on Dec 21st, 2018 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Deal Guru
Mar 22, 2004
11560 posts
RFD
Swerny wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 11:37 am
yes many people blow through it completely to "beat" the people coming from the left.

I suspect that's what happened here.
Exactly.
Newbie
Jul 22, 2008
7 posts
Scarborough ontario …
eugene_2005 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 10:24 am
Let me just speculate as I am not really sure what 0.4 secs and 2.1 secs measurements mean. Let's assume you made a complete stop and within 1.7 seconds you reached speed of 30 km/h. That means your acceleration was 4.90 m per sq. secs. or 5.6 secs to get you to 100 km/h which essentially puts you on par with Ford Mustang on a racing track.
and that is why the speed on his and mine are stupid and know clue what they use to calculate the speed
Deal Guru
Mar 31, 2008
10200 posts
Toronto
That wide right turn there, it's easy to make the stop after the sensor. That's probably what it picked up. OP, can you scan and post the ticket, we are all genuinely curious.
Newbie
Jul 22, 2008
7 posts
Scarborough ontario …
at1212b wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 5:50 pm
That wide right turn there, it's easy to make the stop after the sensor. That's probably what it picked up. OP, can you scan and post the ticket, we are all genuinely curious.
if had scanner would yes was wide turn
Dec 27, 2007
2354 posts
They also have a cop review the images to see if there was a false positive so they probably felt that you didn't fully stop before making the right
Deal Guru
Jun 12, 2007
13302 posts
London
Zephyr22b wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 3:52 pm
There are no sensors in the intersection. The sensors are embedded before the white line.
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