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tranquility922 wrote:
Feb 6th, 2017 11:38 am
It's called 'failure to adjust', just because it worked 1st half doesn't mean it'll work 2nd. BB knew this, heck if they didn't change they would've gotten wiped out. ATL otoh failed to adjust, they definitely should've slowed down esp since you say their D got tired. Put a FG up there, game over, I don't care if 'god' is leading the last drive, it's 2 scoring plays required, no way Pats come back from that.
The point was that Atlanta wasn't moving the chains by running the ball (ie last 9 runs for only 18 yards,) If the goal was to kill the clock, then the only viable option was to continue getting 1st downs through the air and rely on your MVP and his weapons. Hindsight is great at saying run, run FG, but it was clear the Atlanta D was sucking air at the end and playing "not to lose" brand of conservative football is exactly what Belichick wants. You may not have confidence in Brady, but I think most NE fans would take the 11 points with 3:30 left and a gassed Atlanta D. It also didn't help that Atlanta's defense wasn't that great to begin with, something the media overlooked all weekend (24th in yards & 26th in points) while NE's offense was still ranked in the Top 5.
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akira1971 wrote:
Feb 6th, 2017 12:15 pm
The point was that Atlanta wasn't moving the chains by running the ball (ie last 9 runs for only 18 yards,) If the goal was to kill the clock, then the only viable option was to continue getting 1st downs through the air and rely on your MVP and his weapons. Hindsight is great at saying run, run FG, but it was clear the Atlanta D was sucking air at the end and playing "not to lose" brand of conservative football is exactly what Belichick wants. You may not have confidence in Brady, but I think most NE fans would take the 11 points with 3:30 left and a gassed Atlanta D. It also didn't help that Atlanta's defense wasn't that great to begin with, something the media overlooked all weekend (24th in yards & 26th in points) while NE's offense was still ranked in the Top 5.
True ATL's D wasn't gd on paper but definitely contained them 1st half. They were playing scared but ironically not scared enough. I would've done what grappos suggested. Try to come back w/ 11 pts in the hole. 8 pts? Even I saw that it was 'over' w/ Brady at the helm.

Actually didn't make sense what ATL did since it resulted in the worst possble outcome save for an immediate turnover TD.
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Getting back to Atlanta, I still don't know why they passed when they moved down to the 22 yard line, when it was 2nd and 11. They were at the 23 yard line, so even if they did not gain another inch they could have a 40 yard attempt for a field goal since they have a very good kicker. They had 2nd and 3d downs left and I am sure they will gain few more yards to get closer to the goal line if they ran the ball instead of passing. It is much higher risk to pass at that stage because you could have an interception or a sack. As it turned out it was a sack.

A field goal should have clinched it for Atlanta because it would be a 2 score game. Atlantic did not really need a touchdown, just 3 more points would have made New England score twice. And that mean recovering an onside kick after 1 score for NE. An onside kick is really hard to do, it is like a 10% probability.
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LonesomeDove wrote:
Feb 6th, 2017 2:34 pm
Getting back to Atlanta, I still don't know why they passed when they moved down to the 22 yard line, when it was 2nd and 11. They were at the 23 yard line, so even if they did not gain another inch they could have a 40 yard attempt for a field goal since they have a very good kicker. They had 2nd and 3d downs left and I am sure they will gain few more yards to get closer to the goal line if they ran the ball instead of passing. It is much higher risk to pass at that stage because you could have an interception or a sack. As it turned out it was a sack.

A field goal should have clinched it for Atlanta because it would be a 2 score game. Atlantic did not really need a touchdown, just 3 more points would have made New England score twice. And that mean recovering an onside kick after 1 score for NE. An onside kick is really hard to do, it is like a 10% probability.
I'm pretty sure 4 of the last 9 Falcons runs were tackled behind the line of scrimmage - not as bad as a sack, but I would think a MVP qb would know at least to throw it away. Given how the game was going, it was probably just as risky to run the ball and getting tackled behind the LOS or having the Patriots trying to go for the fumble rip every time the RB touched the ball.

And I don't think the point was to settle for a field goal. As I said, the 24th-ranked Atlanta defense was running on fumes and could not stop Brady. Since the run wasn't working and Ryan was 15 for 18 (at that point), Shanahan had to rely on passes to move the chains and kill the clock for his defense. Is everyone still forgetting the Falcons were still up by 8 and the Pats would still need a miracle catch from Edelman AS WELL as another converted two-pointer just to tie? A 1st down hurts NE more than a FG - time was Brady's enemy, not the score.

Glad Patriots won, but I would've like to see a better last minute drive from the Falcons with 57 seconds. If anyone's really looking for someone to blame, this is how I would rank it:
1. J.Matthews two costly holding penalties that killed both drives.
2. Dan Quinn having his defense play so many Cover 1 Robber. First, his team played mostly zone all year. Second, Brady will rip any defense apart if you keep going to the same look. Third, playing man coverage contributed to his defense getting gassed at the end.
3. Freeman completely whiffing on the Hightower sack/fumble.
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Just didn't make sense at all. The best move would be QB sneak for the remaining downs, almost 0% chance of turnover or loss of yardage, FG, game over. This is just so perplexing and way worse than Seattle's brainfart. Doesn't matter if ATL's D was shot, Pats don't have enough time or possession chances to come back from 11. Almost feels like a conspiracy, how can one choke that badly? It's like *daring* Brady to come back w/ only 8 pts down. SMH.
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tranquility922 wrote:
Feb 6th, 2017 9:43 pm
Just didn't make sense at all. The best move would be QB sneak for the remaining downs, almost 0% chance of turnover or loss of yardage, FG, game over. This is just so perplexing and way worse than Seattle's brainfart. Doesn't matter if ATL's D was shot, Pats don't have enough time or possession chances to come back from 11. Almost feels like a conspiracy, how can one choke that badly? It's like *daring* Brady to come back w/ only 8 pts down. SMH.
Thats what chokers do. They do unbelieveable things.

At the end of the day. The QB is the one that decide what happens on the field. Meaning its all Matt Ryan. He couldnt even hold the ball.

Im an ELI fan but I respect brady even more now. I never liked him but always did respect him.

Kind of hard to believe how Eli beat this robot QB twice. This guy is a machine.
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I see God wasn't too happy with the outcome.

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kevindurant1 wrote:
Feb 6th, 2017 11:10 pm
Thats what chokers do. They do unbelieveable things.

At the end of the day. The QB is the one that decide what happens on the field. Meaning its all Matt Ryan. He couldnt even hold the ball.

Im an ELI fan but I respect brady even more now. I never liked him but always did respect him.

Kind of hard to believe how Eli beat this robot QB twice. This guy is a machine.
At the end of the day, this. All this.

Ryan is a good QB. No doubt at all. He manages the field efficiently. But he and his coach blew it. Yes the defense slowed a bit but had they kept the NE offense off the field and / or kept putting them further behind, they would have won.

I agree on Brady. Don't care for him one way or the other but always respected his game and talent. Gotta say .. after a gae like that, kinda hard not to like the guy.
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kevindurant1 wrote:
Feb 6th, 2017 11:10 pm
Thats what chokers do. They do unbelieveable things.

At the end of the day. The QB is the one that decide what happens on the field. Meaning its all Matt Ryan. He couldnt even hold the ball.

Im an ELI fan but I respect brady even more now. I never liked him but always did respect him.

Kind of hard to believe how Eli beat this robot QB twice. This guy is a machine.
This is rare... but the more Super Bowls Brady wins, the better Eli's accomplishments look. Succeed twice where Warner, Delhomme, McNabb, Wilson, and Ryan couldn't.
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akira1971 wrote:
Feb 6th, 2017 4:01 pm
Glad Patriots won, but I would've like to see a better last minute drive from the Falcons with 57 seconds. If anyone's really looking for someone to blame, this is how I would rank it:
1. J.Matthews two costly holding penalties that killed both drives.
2. Dan Quinn having his defense play so many Cover 1 Robber. First, his team played mostly zone all year. Second, Brady will rip any defense apart if you keep going to the same look. Third, playing man coverage contributed to his defense getting gassed at the end.
3. Freeman completely whiffing on the Hightower sack/fumble.
1. If he didn't hold, Ryan would have gotten crushed. He really had no choice as he got beat cleanly.
2. Brady destroys zone defences. Quinn knew that, and he said a week before the SB that he would not be playing much zone. While playing man in the first half of the game, the Falcons shut the Pats down. The D gassed though due to TOP and as a result Quinn tried to allow them to catch their breath by playing more zone. At that point Brady killed them. Brady always shreds zone defences, just like he did against Pittsburgh.
3. Freeman should be embarassed by his lack of effort.
4. The Falcons continually snapped the ball with 10-20 seconds on the play clock when they had a big lead late in the game. That was stupid!
5. When it was 2nd down in FG range, you do not pass the ball, period. Run the ball. Even if you lose 2 yards, so be it. That's better than a sack. Or take a damn knee. You do not pass the ball and risk a sack, which is exactly what happened. It was a stupid play call. Quinn apparently forgets the SB from 2 years ago when his Seahawks blew it due to stupid playcalling
6. The Falcons ran it a total of 4 times in the 4th quarter. That's not enough. They should have ran it more and that's partly why the D was gassed
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1. That's why I'd give Matthew the goat horns. Two mistakes on critical 4th quarter drives to get beaten like that.
2. I would've preferred if Quinn mixed it up a bit more early on. By the 4th, it didn't matter if he played zone or man - those guys were done. Just no pressure up front at all either by the second half.
...
5. Pretty sure with 4:40 left, Falcons were thinking of getting first downs and not just settling for a field goal at that point. Otherwise, giving up and just playing "not to lose" against Belichick is the wrong strategy as it invitably leads to losing.
6. That's misleading. Falcons only had the ball for two drives (not counting the last 57 seconds) and the first drive ended because the RB whiffed on Hightower on just the third play. The second drive had run plays on two first downs for minimal or loss of yardage. That put the offense behind, trying to get a first down to keep the ball away from Brady and kill the clock. And the only reason they were in that position was because Ryan was aggressive passing to Freeman & Jones. Belichick, as usual, took away the run game in the second half and Falcons only gained 18 yards on 9 runs. And it's not like Matt Ryan was clanking passes off the turf - he was 15 for 18 so the chains were moving and the clock was running down on the pass plays too.

That being said, the Falcons still had many opportunities to sneak out a win. From Alford(?) tapping the ball that Edelman caught instead of an interception, or having 57 seconds to go for a FG, and to Beasley getting his hands on the ball to Bennett in the endzone in OT.
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Shaner wrote:
Feb 7th, 2017 1:57 pm
1. If he didn't hold, Ryan would have gotten crushed. He really had no choice as he got beat cleanly.
2. Brady destroys zone defences. Quinn knew that, and he said a week before the SB that he would not be playing much zone. While playing man in the first half of the game, the Falcons shut the Pats down. The D gassed though due to TOP and as a result Quinn tried to allow them to catch their breath by playing more zone. At that point Brady killed them. Brady always shreds zone defences, just like he did against Pittsburgh.
3. Freeman should be embarassed by his lack of effort.
4. The Falcons continually snapped the ball with 10-20 seconds on the play clock when they had a big lead late in the game. That was stupid!
5. When it was 2nd down in FG range, you do not pass the ball, period. Run the ball. Even if you lose 2 yards, so be it. That's better than a sack. Or take a damn knee. You do not pass the ball and risk a sack, which is exactly what happened. It was a stupid play call. Quinn apparently forgets the SB from 2 years ago when his Seahawks blew it due to stupid playcalling
6. The Falcons ran it a total of 4 times in the 4th quarter. That's not enough. They should have ran it more and that's partly why the D was gassed
1. Matthew looked lost out there. That last holding call he literally had Long in a head lock. It was like he was begging for a holding call (queue for conspiracy theorist to chime in). The entire Falcons team was holding all through out the game (defense and O-line). It makes me wonder if that was part of the strategy. Maybe they thought the refs would hold their whistles in the SB (like they typically do).
2. I think Quinn watched a little too much of the Steelers game. Too much man-to-man, the secondary got gassed. However, the Falcons were still getting pressure on Brady. 1 sack and a few known downs/hurries in the last 2 drives of regulation... but it seemed like Brady just turned on God mode.
3. The funny thing is Freeman is the better blocker between him and Coleman.
4. Probably had to do with not changing their offense strategy. Even if you're not changing the plays, waiting until the last second, it does throw off the rhythm for the players.
5. 2 years ago, the play calling was correct. It was amazing awareness by Butler that led to that INT. I can't think of a pick play since SB49 that resulted in an INT. That's about as safe of a throw you can do. The mistake 2 years ago was allowing the clock to run down after the circus catch and again after the Lynch run. If they had more time, then you can run it 4 times. If they ran and not scored, they would have had to use their last timeout and basically have 2 plays ready where 3rd down has to be a pass. If they pass and not scored, they don't need to call a timeout and can run or pass and then take the timeout to come up with your best play on 4th down (which could have been run or pass). It's the right call.
6. The problem was Coleman was out with an injury. He's better at plowing through a big front. Freeman is more like White. He can rush, but better receiving the ball.

This made me laugh:
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^ #5... how is that absolutely the right play call by Carroll? you have Lynch.. he just ran it from the 9 to the 1 yard line on first down....YOU have one time out left.. Pats have NONE... you have 3 downs to get it into the endzone with 55 sec left.. you run it with Lynch on 2nd down.. run it with on 3rd down.. if you somehow dont get in on 2nd and 3rd... then you go for a pass on 4th down if need too.....instead.. you do a pick play to throw RIGHT in the middle where the linebackers would be on a goal line play with a short quarterback... easy to get tipped at the line of scrimmage or stopped/blocked... if you had more room to work with where the linebackers would be further back to start the play, it would be different... IF for whatever reason you are doing a pass play there (you should never in the world be doing it tho).. it should have been a back corner endzone fade where the chances of interception / being tipped are much more minimal...this play call STILL boggles my mind and has me still believing the Pats somehow paid off Carroll..

now for sundays play calling.. it MAY be even worse... you get to the Pats 22 yard line with 4:40 left in the game.. you run and lose one yard... so be it... all you have to do the next to plays is even just take a KNEE.. and run the clock down to 2:30ish and let Bryant, a very good kicker.. a 92% FG kicker from 42 yards and under..hit the FG and put u up by 11 with 2:20 left... there is NO reason to be passing and going for a TD in this situation... 11 point lead is just as good as 15 point lead that late in the game... and as someone said, they were going to try and waste more time? all you can get is one more first down as there is no more room.. and an incomplete pass stops the clock so no point in that....take the knees / run up middle.. make Pats use final 2 timeouts or they let clock run down to 2:30...hit your FG... then that makes the pats have to go full length of field for a TD, get a 2 pt convert...recover an onside kick.. then have to gain about another 30ish yards to get into FG ranges to tie it.. all with 2 time outs, and 2 min 15 sec left... highly unlikely..

i have been watching NFL since 1989...probably at least one game every sunday.. and these are by far the two stupidest coaching decisions/play calls i have ever seen.. and both of them are against the Pats, in the superbowl...seems fishy to me...

Pats are one of the luckiest teams there is... these two superbowls were giftwrapped to them late in the game because of the two stupidest coaching decisions in history...
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^ and the Falcons fire 2 defensive coaches including the coordinator right after offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan leaves for the 49er HC job.
Looks like the finger pointing is going on but the Falcon defense that was weak in the regular season improved greatly in the playoffs and made Brady uncomfortable for most of the game until they were gassed. Dont think that the firings were warranted.
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