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Not super rich or super smart? Well then, don’t major in the arts

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  • Aug 26th, 2014 4:40 pm
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Deal Addict
Aug 19, 2008
1154 posts
378 upvotes
Toronto
Phlegmbot wrote: That's missing the mark. I know these surveys you're talking about, and they indeed show that most undergraduate students in their fourth years intend to work in engineering. But when they start to actually look for a job, I bet they see other things that interest them and they apply to those jobs. It's not the same. I want the OSPE or whatever to tell me how many engineering graduates who are working in other fields are doing it out of necessity and not choice. The last OSPE report I saw about this acknowledged that they didn't even bother to ask this important question.
In recent years it's harder to get into engineering as an engineering grad, most engineers who start in other fields are not by choice, and by the time they are 5 years into that field, who wants to start over and waste all that experience?
A good measurement would have been if every engineering student could be guaranteed an engineering job after graduation, then the amount of engineers working as engineers would have been much higher, of course there are people who worked as engineers then found that it is not for them, it does happen, but a much lower percentage than 65%.
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
mxzas wrote: In recent years it's harder to get into engineering as an engineering grad, most engineers who start in other fields are not by choice, and by the time they are 5 years into that field, who wants to start over and waste all that experience?
How do you know that this is true? What is the source for your information? Please cite it.
mxzas wrote: A good measurement would have been if every engineering student could be guaranteed an engineering job after graduation, then the amount of engineers working as engineers would have been much higher,
Wat.
mxzas wrote: of course there are people who worked as engineers then found that it is not for them, it does happen,
This is absolutely true.
mxzas wrote: but a much lower percentage than 65%.
This is where you make a mistake. How do you know that the percentage is less than 65%? You can't just give a figure and not cite your source.
Deal Addict
Aug 19, 2008
1154 posts
378 upvotes
Toronto
There are no surveys officially published that i know of, but the fact that engineers have a tough time getting engineering jobs is absolutely true. When that happens people just take whatever they can to make money and pay the bills. Thats just what I gathered and witnessed throughout the years as an engineer and having many engineering friends, if you refuse to believe so, all the power to you. If you are interested at all, just ask around.an official survey like this might not happen at all because the government doesn't care as long as you are employed and not a burden to society.
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
mxzas wrote: There are no surveys officially published that i know of, but the fact that engineers have a tough time getting engineering jobs is absolutely true.
So you're saying, 'Well, I don't know if it's actually true - but it is.' Lame.
mxzas wrote: When that happens people just take whatever they can to make money and pay the bills.
Some people, yes. But how many? That's the important bit!!!
mxzas wrote: Thats just what I gathered and witnessed throughout the years as an engineer and having many engineering friends,
Meaningless anecdotes.
mxzas wrote: if you refuse to believe so, all the power to you.
I'll believe whatever the research shows. So show me the research that says that engineering graduates who want to get engineering jobs are unable to do so in significant numbers.
mxzas wrote: If you are interested at all, just ask around.an official survey like this might not happen at all because the government doesn't care as long as you are employed and not a burden to society.
Actually, there are all sorts of OSPE research reports. They just never ask the important question. For example, see http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.ospe.on.ca ... room_t.pdf

For example:
OSPE wrote:Any one, all or a combination of the following questions can be asked based on the snapshots outlined in this report: ... Are some of the 33.3 per cent of underemployed and/or the 37 per cent working in positions requiring a degree but not as engineers/engineering managers satisfied with their career paths and have no desire to work in engineering?
Isn't that ridiculous?!? They spend all this time and money on a survey that could have been great, but they don't even ask survey respondents if they're happier outside of engineering!

By the way, the OSPE insults people by saying that if you are an engineering graduate who works in a job that doesn't require a university degree, you are necessarily underemployed. Tell that to my former classmate who is now a general contractor. He worked as an engineer for a while, then quit because he prefers to work with his hands. He's much happier now! This anecdote is not given to prove any trend - but to clarify that someone with a BASc can happily work a blue collar job by choice.
Deal Addict
Aug 19, 2008
1154 posts
378 upvotes
Toronto
I'm not saying that I dunno if its true.. I'm sure of my observations and the general trend. As I said, I am an engineer and I have many friends who are engineers and share the job market opinion with me. Anecdotes are not meaningless when it is the only source of information regarding to this subject, the 2nd best is non existent.

Someone who prefers more hands on work is clearly in the wrong field, those exist in every profession but certainly not 65%, those who choose engineering and stuck through all these years of vigorous training and learning all the complex and abstract concepts and at the end just claps their hands together and decide engineering is not for them, clearly wasted their 4 years of life and did not have a clear direction.

I'm sure the majority of people would prefer being in air conditioned rooms instead of burning their skin off in 30 degree weather.
Deal Addict
Jan 10, 2007
1863 posts
344 upvotes
Woodbridge
oh look who is here wasting their precious time asking for studies over and over and over.

As if presenting some kind of data under the guise of a "study" somehow makes it more meaningful than what people are seeing and living every single day in this province.

Its the new mark77
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2674 posts
801 upvotes
Euphoric wrote: As if presenting some kind of data under the guise of a "study" somehow makes it more meaningful than what people are seeing and living every single day in this province.
Yes, this is exactly true. How else do you live your life?

It is fair to say "I am having a problem finding a job in my field" because you (obviously) have full awareness of your own situation. However, it is not fair to say "I know that most engineering graduates are having a problem find a job in their field" because you do not have full awareness of everyone else's situation.

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