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The OFFICIAL Hardwood Flooring Thread

Newbie
Apr 13, 2010
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Toronto
patrob wrote: Character is 3rd grade & should be priced low. It's locally made wood. Its finish feels softer than others IMO. You will have a lot of imperfections & high colour variation in that grade. Yes, nosings have to be installed before hardwood.
We actually like the imperfections and colour variation, gives it more "character" for lack of a better word. Could be my untrained eye though. :)

When you say "priced low", what do you consider low? Like $4/sq ft, higher, lower? To be honest, I find this industry very odd, every store has different prices depending on quantity and it's all negotiable (ie. no retail with a discount like other trades). It's very difficult to know what to even negotiate down to.
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Dec 26, 2007
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patrob wrote: Exotic wood & the harder it is, the more unstable it is. Buy it only from reputable manufacturers & cost should be over $7 sq. ft. plus taxes.
Can you please define "unstable" as I have been speaking to different sales people about Ipe/Lapacho as well as Sucupira (much softer than Ipe but 33% harder than Maple) and get different versions of "stability".

Unless you go into the Mirage level stuff (around 8.50 sqft MSRP +) most of the non-chinese exotics I have seen is between $6-$7sqft and negotiable on volume.(in Montreal area)
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Dec 26, 2007
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Also just found this blurb:

[QUOTE]Properties:
Lapacho, or ipe as it is also commonly referred to as, is an unbelievably durable and hard wood species. This species is very resistant to decay and termite and dry insect attack. Just like concrete and steel, it even has a Class 1 UBC (uniform building code) fire rating. Along with its extreme hardness, strength, weight, density, and durability, lapacho is also one of the most stable woods available. However, it is important to "over-dry" the wood in a kiln to avoid excessive shrinkage when installing.[/QUOTE]

I'm curious about the part that says that it is "one of the most stable woods available"
Sr. Member
Oct 7, 2009
814 posts
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Any thoughts on cabrueva? Also called santos mahogany, I believe. We really like the colour variations and the hardness. How stable is it?
Jr. Member
Nov 4, 2006
181 posts
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Moncton
patrob - like I said before I have a 3/4 tongue and groove and then 1/4 or 3/8 osb for a sub floor. I'm going to start laying the hardwood tomorrow but I still find I have a fair amount of squeaking. I've used a bunch of 2" flooring screws but the osb still seems to squeak a little. Should I put more screws or will the flooring staples also help the squeaking???

Thanks!
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Apr 17, 2005
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Brampton
l0cus wrote: We actually like the imperfections and colour variation, gives it more "character" for lack of a better word. Could be my untrained eye though. :)

When you say "priced low", what do you consider low? Like $4/sq ft, higher, lower? To be honest, I find this industry very odd, every store has different prices depending on quantity and it's all negotiable (ie. no retail with a discount like other trades). It's very difficult to know what to even negotiate down to.
We don't really deal with 3rd grade products but price wise should be around $ 4 sq. ft. (+-) Every store has the right to sell the wood for whatever price they want. Some stores/contractors are more competitive & will sell it for less.
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aegean wrote: Can you please define "unstable" as I have been speaking to different sales people about Ipe/Lapacho as well as Sucupira (much softer than Ipe but 33% harder than Maple) and get different versions of "stability".

Unless you go into the Mirage level stuff (around 8.50 sqft MSRP +) most of the non-chinese exotics I have seen is between $6-$7sqft and negotiable on volume.(in Montreal area)
aegean wrote: Also just found this blurb:

I'm curious about the part that says that it is "one of the most stable woods available"
We noticed with a lot of exotics & very hard species in solid, when you have higher fluctuations in RH levels, the wood will have more expansion & contraction. With that, the wood may not be cupping but it will show a lot of stress cracks. Engineered wood, because of the multi-layer base, which is cross patterned/grain, will minimize the expansion & contraction. Therefore, you have lower chances of the wood showing stress cracks.

There is a lot of "unknown" manufacturers which make Ipe. A lot of it comes from who knows where & nobody knows how this wood was processed, stored & even though it says 25-35 year warranty, if you have any stress cracks showing, they will most likely blame it on the homeowner that proper humidity levels were not kept & also very often you will have nobody to call with a claim with these "un-known" manufacturers :idea:
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Super_Coo wrote: patrob - like I said before I have a 3/4 tongue and groove and then 1/4 or 3/8 osb for a sub floor. I'm going to start laying the hardwood tomorrow but I still find I have a fair amount of squeaking. I've used a bunch of 2" flooring screws but the osb still seems to squeak a little. Should I put more screws or will the flooring staples also help the squeaking???

Thanks!
Is it squeaking or creaking? Are you putting the screws into the joist or empty space? And all squeaks have to be fixed before you install the floor. It will not fix itself by nailing the floor.
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Therion wrote: Any thoughts on cabrueva? Also called santos mahogany, I believe. We really like the colour variations and the hardness. How stable is it?
Here is Vintage 3 1/4" Cabreuva Santos Mahogany we installed some time ago :D

Image

Just make sure you get it in solid sawn engineered, you'll be fine.
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Nov 4, 2006
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Moncton
patrob wrote: Is it squeaking or creaking? Are you putting the screws into the joist or empty space? And all squeaks have to be fixed before you install the floor. It will not fix itself by nailing the floor.
To be honest I'm not sure what the difference between squeaking or creaking... except I do know that I can see the osb move up and down as it was only nailed down the the tongue and groove.

I put the screws into joists and some empty spaces also.

The first section we're laying floor is directly above an unfinished side of a basement if that helps. I could maybe screw up into the floor afterwards?
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Dec 7, 2003
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Toronto
I want to get some opinions on the flooring in the loft I'm moving into next month. It currently has dark brown/red hardwood in a herringbone pattern on the first floor and carpet on the second. I'm pretty sure the hardwood is glued to the conrete (I assume since it's a loft) so I don't want to tear it out. But I'm stuck between two choices:

1. Refinish the hardwood on the main floor since it looks fairly worn at the moment and tear out the carpet on the 2nd floor and stairs and lay down engineered hardwood.

2. Lay engineered hardwood throughout the whole unit covering up the original hardwood on the first floor.

The unit is 950 square feet, although I think I have maybe 600-700 sqft of flooring that would require hardwood (I'm going in to measure this weekend.) We're looking at changing the floor colour to a lighter colour, probably gray. So is it possible to restain the herringbone a lighter colour to match the colour of the engineered hardwood? And would it look odd to have different patterns within the space? How much does refinishing typically run? From a cost perspective does it make more sense to just lay down the new flooring as opposed to restaining/refinishing?
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Oct 7, 2009
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The cabrueva we're looking at is solid 3/4" hardwood, not engineered. Most websites rate it stable, and one has it as the most stable out of all the woods. Is that true? Or should we avoid solid planks? The only place I saw that had enginereed cabreuva was selling it for $10.99/sq.ft. we found a place that had the solid planks for less than $7.
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Super_Coo wrote: To be honest I'm not sure what the difference between squeaking or creaking... except I do know that I can see the osb move up and down as it was only nailed down the the tongue and groove.

I put the screws into joists and some empty spaces also.

The first section we're laying floor is directly above an unfinished side of a basement if that helps. I could maybe screw up into the floor afterwards?
If you have access from underneath, check maybe it's a cross between joist squeaking. Maybe it's a missed nail or a hanger in case of TGI. If you missed a joist & it's just slightly touching the joist on the side, it may create a squeak.
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grego9198 wrote: I want to get some opinions on the flooring in the loft I'm moving into next month. It currently has dark brown/red hardwood in a herringbone pattern on the first floor and carpet on the second. I'm pretty sure the hardwood is glued to the conrete (I assume since it's a loft) so I don't want to tear it out. But I'm stuck between two choices:

1. Refinish the hardwood on the main floor since it looks fairly worn at the moment and tear out the carpet on the 2nd floor and stairs and lay down engineered hardwood.

2. Lay engineered hardwood throughout the whole unit covering up the original hardwood on the first floor.

The unit is 950 square feet, although I think I have maybe 600-700 sqft of flooring that would require hardwood (I'm going in to measure this weekend.) We're looking at changing the floor colour to a lighter colour, probably gray. So is it possible to restain the herringbone a lighter colour to match the colour of the engineered hardwood? And would it look odd to have different patterns within the space? How much does refinishing typically run? From a cost perspective does it make more sense to just lay down the new flooring as opposed to restaining/refinishing?
If the herringbone can be re-finished, I would def. do that. It's very expensive to install herringbone. Very often, you will find two diff. patterns on 2 diff. floors so there is nothing wrong if you install diff. pattern upstairs as long as the colour is similar. Re-finishing will be less than half the cost of new floors.
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Therion wrote: The cabrueva we're looking at is solid 3/4" hardwood, not engineered. Most websites rate it stable, and one has it as the most stable out of all the woods. Is that true? Or should we avoid solid planks? The only place I saw that had enginereed cabreuva was selling it for $10.99/sq.ft. we found a place that had the solid planks for less than $7.
As said before, Solid Sawn Engineered is better than solid. We heard that before, that some claim that solid exotics are stable, so why do we hear about complaints from homeowners about gapping, cracking, cupping, etc. This will not happen with solid sawn eng. If you need more help with wood & installation, e-mail me directly.
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patrob wrote: If the herringbone can be re-finished, I would def. do that. It's very expensive to install herringbone. Very often, you will find two diff. patterns on 2 diff. floors so there is nothing wrong if you install diff. pattern upstairs as long as the colour is similar. Re-finishing will be less than half the cost of new floors.
Thanks for the insight, I will have a look into refinishing it grey. I showed a couple pictures of grey herringbone to my gf and it persuaded her to change her anti-herringbone stance ;)
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Apr 13, 2010
18 posts
Toronto
patrob, I've seen you recommend engineered over hardwood a few times. Most stores I've been in only recommend engineered in basements or on concrete, and hardwood on the other floors - I believe it was mainly for resale (they say hardwood commands more) and because then they can be resurfaced in many years (not that that will matter to me, but I guess it's directly related to the resale). Just curious on your preference.
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May 9, 2008
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Barrie
Hi Patrob,

My new hardwood has been installed for about 2 months now and I've got some gapping issues. Some are only wide enough to put a business card in, which isn't too bad...though I think with a brand new installation and humidity at 50% I should have ZERO gaps. Other gaps are wide enough to put a credit card in - would you say this is acceptable? The company DID NOT acclimatize the wood to my home, and the gapping was apparent immediately after installation. I can't tell if it has gotten better or worse with minor humidity changes. Do you think this is normal, or should I be upset??
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l0cus wrote: patrob, I've seen you recommend engineered over hardwood a few times. Most stores I've been in only recommend engineered in basements or on concrete, and hardwood on the other floors - I believe it was mainly for resale (they say hardwood commands more) and because then they can be resurfaced in many years (not that that will matter to me, but I guess it's directly related to the resale). Just curious on your preference.
I think you have the wrong idea about engineered hardwood. It's NOT laminate, it is REAL wood with diff. base. It can be re-finished as many times as solid hardwood (3/4" solid sawn) but it's a lot better (much more stable). Maybe the stores should research more on what they are selling or they are pushing for solid because of their bigger mark up :idea: I can give you many examples of eng. hardwood & you won't be able to tell the difference.
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tylerc wrote: Hi Patrob,

My new hardwood has been installed for about 2 months now and I've got some gapping issues. Some are only wide enough to put a business card in, which isn't too bad...though I think with a brand new installation and humidity at 50% I should have ZERO gaps. Other gaps are wide enough to put a credit card in - would you say this is acceptable? The company DID NOT acclimatize the wood to my home, and the gapping was apparent immediately after installation. I can't tell if it has gotten better or worse with minor humidity changes. Do you think this is normal, or should I be upset??
If it is a humidity issue, give it more time. But I think it may be poor milling (narrow boards/tapered ends). Have you contacted the installer & what did they say?
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