Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

  • Last Updated:
  • May 20th, 2018 7:48 pm
Newbie
Jun 10, 2016
6 posts
We are buying for $535,000.

We were just offered by a mortgage broker:

2.59% w/ 15% down
or
2.69% w/ 20% down

Why the higher rate for more down payment? does the broker get c omission off the CAMH insurance? Also, looking at ratehub.ca , could we possibly get a better rate?
Deal Addict
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Dec 1, 2015
1528 posts
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Etobicoke, ON
The absolute majority of the lenders (this has nothing to do with the broker) offer lower rates when the mortgage is insured (high ratio - any downpayment below 20%). If this is the case, you can get better rates.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent
FSCO # 10428 - Mortgage Intelligence
Newbie
Oct 9, 2013
96 posts
16 upvotes
Gloucester, ON
How much is it going to cost me the shed the Scotia STEP mortgage I never asked for, in one years time? Roughly $1300?
And given that I'll get crappy rates coming over from a HELOC, is a viable strategy, to sign the smallest conventional term I can so I endure the higher rates for a shorter time, and then I negotiate in a year for hopefully the most competitive?

Also, it seems from reading above, should I want a HELOC in the future, I should get a conventional mortgage and then register the HELOC component from a different lender, allowing my to continue to switch my mortgage component freely with the best rates?

I should also ask... are all scotia mortgages collateral? Is there any tact to saying, hey I never wanted this HELOC, and trying to make scotia renew me to a conventional term ask them to eat the fees, and then test the waters on a subsequent renewal?
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Dec 11, 2011
1187 posts
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Pallet Town
I had a question about mortgage insurance. Lets say the bank pre-approves someone for a 450K purchase price with a 5% down payment. Does this purchase price usually take into account the mortgage insurance required by CMHC? Or does the pre-approval assume that you will be paying it upfront in cash, instead of adding it to the mortgage?
Jr. Member
Dec 11, 2003
171 posts
15 upvotes
Hi I have bought a condo for $470k and closing is less than 90 days. Got an approval from HSBC for the 5-year 2.35% but they need 30% downpayment for investment properties. What would be the best 5-year fixed rate out there if I only want to put 20% down?
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Sep 13, 2011
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Toronto
Hawk25 wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 10:13 pm
I had a question about mortgage insurance. Lets say the bank pre-approves someone for a 450K purchase price with a 5% down payment. Does this purchase price usually take into account the mortgage insurance required by CMHC? Or does the pre-approval assume that you will be paying it upfront in cash, instead of adding it to the mortgage?
It's best to ask this question to the bank that preapproved you. It 'should', but I would ensure you ask them to confirm.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
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Dec 5, 2004
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Who is offering 1.80% 5 year variable for high ratio? I've only been able to get 1.99% conventional mortgage with monthly pre-pay and yearly pre-pay options.
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Sep 13, 2011
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Geologic wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 9:41 am
Who is offering 1.80% 5 year variable for high ratio? I've only been able to get 1.99% conventional mortgage with monthly pre-pay and yearly pre-pay options.
It's available through any regular posting broker on this board. The lender is MCAP.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Newbie
Mar 20, 2017
3 posts
valuemortgage wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 6:44 pm
Any refinance will be treated (at least at this point) the same way, regardless the LTV. What I was talking about was that the other poster (laurentreit088330) had a collateral charge which he was refinancing to move it to TD, which would again get him another collateral charge. So, any cash incentive he was getting for that deal could potentially be a wash, as the new TD mortgage would again need to be refinanced at the end of the term.
I have a bit of trouble following the higher cost of a collateral mortgage in this case. I (laurentreit088330) was offered 2.25% var (2.35% fixed) with about 2000$ cashback. What I understand is that at the end of the term, I will not be able to have the best rate available to a non collateral refinance (or move to another lender). This would be the potential higher cost of, let's say a difference on the next term of 2.5 % for non collateral vs 2.95 % for collateral which, if I am with TD, I would forced to take.

Now, it seems odd that today, even for collateral I still get a comparable rate that non collateral. Would I not get the same (potentially) offer at the end of my term ?

My understanding is that the higher cost of collateral is only in the rate difference at term's end, no additional costs (except maybe around 500$ for legal), is this correct ?
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Dec 1, 2015
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Etobicoke, ON
There are 2 considerations regarding that question about the collateral charge :

A - When you have that product (let's say the TD mortgage in question) and your mortgage is about to renew... if TD offers you a good rate, then all is fine. But if they do not, you may find yourself in a tough spot as a better rate offered elsewhere will come at a cost of refinance fees (normally $850.00 or so, not $500.00) plus appraisal costs plus the regular discharge fee (around $300.00). This will impact your freedom to change lenders, as the costs associated with the transfer may be higher than the potential savings elsewhere.

B - Not only you will incur those fees, but the rates you see posted here will not be available as a transfer of a collateral charge is treated as a refinance, so "regular" rates do not apply.. only specific refinance rates are available, and they are currently much higher than regular rates.

For example, someone with a mortgage with First National and looking to transfer it to Mcap would get a 5y variable as low as 1.80%, and pay only the discharge fee ($300.00).

The same client with a TD mortgage trying to move to Mcap would have to pay legal fees ($850.00) plus appraisal ($300.00) plus the discharge fee ($300.00). The real issue is that the same 5y variable product with Mcap called ValueFlex, is NOT available for refinances... so the client would only be able to get the "regular" product, at 2.30%.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent
FSCO # 10428 - Mortgage Intelligence
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Apr 21, 2004
44253 posts
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Do some of the credit unions in Ontario still offer higher than the 65% LTV on HELOC's that are not on first collateral? Or have they all shifted to 65% LTV? Thank you.

http://www.mortgagebrokernews.ca/news/b ... 78640.aspx

The biggest advantage remaining with the credit unions will be their ability to provide HELOCS at 80% to borrowers. Still, a significant advantage of the credit unions, the ability for borrowers to purchase a home with little or no down payment, will be disappearing.
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Dec 1, 2015
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Etobicoke, ON
When the first bill (B20) was introduced with those limitations, it only applied to institutions regulated at the federal level... so, credit unions being under provincial regulation were not initially affected. Then, B21 came in and imposed those same rules to banks, monolines and CU as well.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent
FSCO # 10428 - Mortgage Intelligence
Member
Sep 19, 2012
492 posts
339 upvotes
Calgary
valuemortgage wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 10:16 am
Not only you will incur those fees, but the rates you see posted here will not be available as a transfer of a collateral charge is treated as a refinance, so "regular" rates do not apply.. only specific refinance rates are available, and they are currently much higher than regular rates.
Again, isn't this only applicable when the mortgage is insured? If you had a 35% LTV loan today that you were looking to move, from a rate perspective it wouldn't matter if your loan was a collateral charge or not, right? Rates on uninsured refinances are the same as the rates on uninsured switches, the only difference is the legal/discharge costs of a refinance. Right?
valuemortgage wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 10:45 am
When the first bill (B20) was introduced with those limitations, it only applied to institutions regulated at the federal level... so, credit unions being under provincial regulation were not initially affected. Then, B21 came in and imposed those same rules to banks, monolines and CU as well.
This is not true in Alberta. CUDGC is the CU regulator and they are not forced to abide by OSFI guidelines. HELOC LTV can be > 65% at an Alberta Credit Union.
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Apr 21, 2004
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ahlaker wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 12:55 pm
Again, isn't this only applicable when the mortgage is insured? If you had a 35% LTV loan today that you were looking to move, from a rate perspective it wouldn't matter if your loan was a collateral charge or not, right? Rates on uninsured refinances are the same as the rates on uninsured switches, the only difference is the legal/discharge costs of a refinance. Right?



This is not true in Alberta. CUDGC is the CU regulator and they are not forced to abide by OSFI guidelines. HELOC LTV can be > 65% at an Alberta Credit Union.
Yeah, I was wondering that because nothing in B21 says that. Anyway, I don't need more than 65% LTV since I won't be using it for a long term purchase and I'll pay it down with every pay cheque. I was just wondering because since I haven't applied to any, I might as well seek a CU that offers a higher LTV.

http://www.osfi-bsif.gc.ca/eng/fi-if/rg ... 1_let.aspx

http://www.cba.ca/changes-to-canadas-mortgage-market
OSFI’s B-20 Guideline on Residential Mortgage Underwriting Policies and Procedures, which came into effect in 2012, outlines key principles for prudent mortgage underwriting that banks are required to follow. It also places limits on home equity lines of credit (HELOC). A homeowner can borrow no more than 65 per cent of the value of their property through a non-amortizing HELOC. Any additional mortgage credit beyond the 65 per cent of the property value on HELOCs should be amortized.

OSFI’s B-21 Guideline on Residential Mortgage Insurance Underwriting Policies and Procedures, which came into effect in 2015, focusses on the mortgage insurer’s interaction with lenders as part of the insurance underwriting process and includes on-going due diligence into a lender’s operations and its risk management processes.
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Feb 2, 2014
4737 posts
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Toronto
Speedy1 wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 5:04 pm
National Bank
Which is a collateral charge mortgage. Keep in mind, you have to pay refinancing costs (legals and appraisal) and likely a higher rate if you ever leave them (same with TD and Tangerine).
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Mortgage Agent and Real Estate Sales Representative

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