Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

  • Last Updated:
  • May 24th, 2018 11:08 pm
Deal Addict
Feb 2, 2014
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GerryBettman wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 7:07 pm
We are buying for $535,000.

We were just offered by a mortgage broker:

2.59% w/ 15% down
or
2.69% w/ 20% down

Why the higher rate for more down payment? does the broker get c omission off the CAMH insurance? Also, looking at ratehub.ca , could we possibly get a better rate?
In addition to what Andre said, the rates are pretty high. You can go as low as 2.39% 5-year fixed for an insured mortgage.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
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Saleshrink wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 8:51 pm
How much is it going to cost me the shed the Scotia STEP mortgage I never asked for, in one years time? Roughly $1300?
And given that I'll get crappy rates coming over from a HELOC, is a viable strategy, to sign the smallest conventional term I can so I endure the higher rates for a shorter time, and then I negotiate in a year for hopefully the most competitive?

Also, it seems from reading above, should I want a HELOC in the future, I should get a conventional mortgage and then register the HELOC component from a different lender, allowing my to continue to switch my mortgage component freely with the best rates?

I should also ask... are all scotia mortgages collateral? Is there any tact to saying, hey I never wanted this HELOC, and trying to make scotia renew me to a conventional term ask them to eat the fees, and then test the waters on a subsequent renewal?
Legal fees (about $800 - $1200 depending on the lawyer)
Appraisal (about $300)

The big cost will be the higher rate. Best refinancing rates (which is what your mortgage will be deemed if you switch lenders) are higher than the best mortgage transfer rates....this is the new burden of the collateral charge mortgage.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
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Geologic wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 9:41 am
Who is offering 1.80% 5 year variable for high ratio? I've only been able to get 1.99% conventional mortgage with monthly pre-pay and yearly pre-pay options.
Just to add to what Paul said (as he missed the 2nd part of your question), it allows 20/20 prepayments.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
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GerryBettman wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 7:07 pm
We are buying for $535,000.

We were just offered by a mortgage broker:

2.59% w/ 15% down
or
2.69% w/ 20% down

Why the higher rate for more down payment? does the broker get c omission off the CAMH insurance? Also, looking at ratehub.ca , could we possibly get a better rate?
For what it's worth, the down doesn't have to be 15% or 20% on the nose. You can put 19.9% down, pay the mortgage insurance (2.4% of the 80.1%, or $10,285 in your scenario) and get the insured rate.

The math just doesn't make sense to do so. It doesn't break even. The insured rate would need to be 0.5% lower than the uninsured rate just to equal out over a 5 year term.
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Jul 14, 2008
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Existing mortgage with TD, and also a HELOC. Upcoming maturity (roughly 3 months).
Would like to put only a portion of the HELOC balance into the mortgage, so the new mortgaged amount will be higher.

This is not a simple mortgage renewal anymore, correct?
Would I be better off to keep this 'portion' separate from my mortgage, and just roll it into a term portion? (and how are those rates compared to mortgage rates)?

The HELOC is at Prime + 0%, and I'd like to keep it at that rate (quick discussion with another bank, or new HELOC with TD, would not get that rate).
I'd like a higher balance limit, so not sure what is the easiest and/or most cost effective way.

Thanks.
Newbie
Mar 20, 2017
3 posts
olabreche wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 9:42 am
Looks like we're more or less in the same boat. Is it also your understanding that to move away from National Bank's Line of Credit, the legal fees are at least 750$ (if not paid by the bank)? I had never been aware of this fact before.

Would you mind posting your broker's name? I'd take the 2000$ cashback :)

Otherwise, regarding 5 years variable, I was offered 2.15% by CanWise with all transfer fees paid (non-insured). Still hesitating between this and the 2 years closed. The paid transfer fees are a big incentive to go 5 years, this and not needing to bother renegotiating again in 2 years.
Sure, I'll PM the info.
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Aug 8, 2012
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valuemortgage wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 10:16 am
B - Not only you will incur those fees, but the rates you see posted here will not be available as a transfer of a collateral charge is treated as a refinance, so "regular" rates do not apply.. only specific refinance rates are available, and they are currently much higher than regular rates.
ahlaker wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 12:55 pm
Again, isn't this only applicable when the mortgage is insured? If you had a 35% LTV loan today that you were looking to move, from a rate perspective it wouldn't matter if your loan was a collateral charge or not, right? Rates on uninsured refinances are the same as the rates on uninsured switches, the only difference is the legal/discharge costs of a refinance. Right?
Ya, interesting question ... if you do a 'refinance' to "switch" an already-insured (at purchase) collateral mortgage to an amount that's equal or LESS than the original insured loan amount ... don't you get the rate benefits of having an insured mortgage? Or do you toss out that original insurance?! Seems like such a waste.

(Note "switch" I mean change lenders from collateral charge A to standard charge B not a true switch)
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ace604 wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 10:47 pm
Ya, interesting question ... if you do a 'refinance' to "switch" an already-insured (at purchase) collateral mortgage to an amount that's equal or LESS than the original insured loan amount ... don't you get the rate benefits of having an insured mortgage? Or do you toss out that original insurance?! Seems like such a waste.

(Note "switch" I mean change lenders from collateral charge A to standard charge B not a true switch)
It still has to proceed as a refinance so the fact that the mortgage was originally insured is irrelevant unfortunately.
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ahlaker wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 12:55 pm
Again, isn't this only applicable when the mortgage is insured? If you had a 35% LTV loan today that you were looking to move, from a rate perspective it wouldn't matter if your loan was a collateral charge or not, right? Rates on uninsured refinances are the same as the rates on uninsured switches, the only difference is the legal/discharge costs of a refinance. Right?



This is not true in Alberta. CUDGC is the CU regulator and they are not forced to abide by OSFI guidelines. HELOC LTV can be > 65% at an Alberta Credit Union.
I had spare time late yesterday afternoon and tried to call two CU's and no one was picking up. So I just submitted my inquiries via email and submission webpages and can confirm that one CU (representative just responded back) can offer up to 75% (or even 80%) LTV.

This is where I got my short list of CU's to contact:
http://cooperativebanking.ca/index.html
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Nov 2, 2012
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Currently looking at a possible new house to buy, so I have some questions for the prefessions here.

The new property will be around $800k, and I will sell my house to buy it. Since the closing of the new house will be end of July, I think I have got plenty of time to sell my property at the same time. My house is going to be sold for around $620k, and right now the mortgage balance is $245k. My mortgage is a 2-year fixed maturing in Aug 2018 at 2.09%. Annual income is $89k. No other debts except car payment $300 a month (less than $10k in the balance, so I can pay it off right now if that helps me getting a higher mortgage amount).

Is it OK to make the $800k offer toward the new house and then sell my house to move given my situation? (basically want to know if my situation allows me to go for a bigger house like that and the mortgage part can be taken care of without problems?)
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Sep 19, 2012
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Calgary
ace604 wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 10:47 pm
Ya, interesting question ... if you do a 'refinance' to "switch" an already-insured (at purchase) collateral mortgage to an amount that's equal or LESS than the original insured loan amount ... don't you get the rate benefits of having an insured mortgage? Or do you toss out that original insurance?! Seems like such a waste.
PaulMeredith wrote:
Mar 24th, 2017 6:24 am
It still has to proceed as a refinance so the fact that the mortgage was originally insured is irrelevant unfortunately.
Ace - not only is it a waste, it's a blatant cash grab by these lenders. The insurance on the collateral mortgage survives - that is a fact that has been confirmed by Genworth and CMHC. Not only are the lenders unwilling to do a "free switch-in" (nothing legally preventing them to do so, as you say, just use whiteout and change names!) but the lenders are also unwilling to provide a rate discount for the fact that the mortgage remains insured (and therefore their risk stays low). They must really want to stick it to the consumers that had the gall to go with a collateral charge. What's worse is there are folks who blame the government's rule changes for creating this particular scenario.

I've asked a couple of times, and I'll ask again: this seems to be a non-issue if you didn't have an insured mortgage to begin with. Paul/Andre/Kevin, could you clarify/confirm this fact? If you had a client with an uninsured collateral charge would they be "losing" out on a better rate because they were in a collateral charge or would their only "loss" be the fact that they had to refinance and therefore pay legal fees?
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Mar 20, 2017
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RATT80s wrote:
Mar 22nd, 2017 2:49 pm
Just signed a 2 year fixed term with Scotiabank at 2.29% (was also offered a 5 year fixed @ 2.69%). I know it isn't great as HSBC and its 5 year 2.35% term, but as a first home buyer I'm quite happy with the one I got.
Did you get a cashback when you signed? There seems to be a lot of incredulity around the 2.04% rate. A possibility is that this rate may be an effective rate including a cashback offer.
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edcrfvtgb wrote:
Mar 24th, 2017 10:23 am
Currently looking at a possible new house to buy, so I have some questions for the prefessions here.

The new property will be around $800k, and I will sell my house to buy it. Since the closing of the new house will be end of July, I think I have got plenty of time to sell my property at the same time. My house is going to be sold for around $620k, and right now the mortgage balance is $245k. My mortgage is a 2-year fixed maturing in Aug 2018 at 2.09%. Annual income is $89k. No other debts except car payment $300 a month (less than $10k in the balance, so I can pay it off right now if that helps me getting a higher mortgage amount).

Is it OK to make the $800k offer toward the new house and then sell my house to move given my situation? (basically want to know if my situation allows me to go for a bigger house like that and the mortgage part can be taken care of without problems?)
Based on the information provided, yes, you should qualify for this. However, I HIGHLY suggest putting in an application with a broker or bank to get pre-approved before you do so. Never just assume that you will qualify or that your credit is solid. Let someone look everything over for you first before moving forward with an offer.
Paul Meredith
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Mike15 wrote:
Mar 23rd, 2017 3:05 pm
The math just doesn't make sense to do so. It doesn't break even. The insured rate would need to be 0.5% lower than the uninsured rate just to equal out over a 5 year term.
Aren't you ignoring the "saved" downpayment and earnings on it over time? Say you put down 15% - you'd take the 5% you saved ($26,750) and to come out ahead over time you have to earn enough to recover the insurance premium (which in this case is $12,733). Given that you're paying the insurance premium over 25 years, you have those entire 25 years to catch up to the $12,733. Of course you need to be able to afford the higher payment with the 85% LTV option (in this case the payment is about $157 different) and that complicates the break-even point more as you could take that extra payment and invest it. To calculate the breakeven point after 25 years = Rate(25,$157x12,-$26,750) = 4.94%. So you're probably still right, unless you earn 5% after-tax over 25 years you're better off not paying the CMHC insurance.

I thought it would be good to point out that it's not as simple as you suggested :)
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ahlaker wrote:
Mar 24th, 2017 11:22 am
Aren't you ignoring the "saved" downpayment and earnings on it over time? Say you put down 15% - you'd take the 5% you saved ($26,750) and to come out ahead over time you have to earn enough to recover the insurance premium (which in this case is $12,733). Given that you're paying the insurance premium over 25 years, you have those entire 25 years to catch up to the $12,733. Of course you need to be able to afford the higher payment with the 85% LTV option (in this case the payment is about $157 different) and that complicates the break-even point more as you could take that extra payment and invest it. To calculate the breakeven point after 25 years = Rate(25,$157x12,-$26,750) = 4.94%. So you're probably still right, unless you earn 5% after-tax over 25 years you're better off not paying the CMHC insurance.

I thought it would be good to point out that it's not as simple as you suggested :)
I compared putting 19.9% down (CMHC) vs. putting 20% down (no CMHC). $535 downpayment difference. This doesn't breakeven.

15% down vs 20% down is a different comparison.

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