Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 19th, 2017 10:15 pm
Deal Guru
Mar 23, 2009
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Toronto
PaulMeredith wrote:
Aug 6th, 2017 3:23 pm
Low credit score borrowers and no-frills mortgages are two completely different things. People with low credit scores would be suited to a B type lender. Many A lenders now have B sides as well. MCAP, RMG, Merix, B2B and Street Capital all have B sides to handle this type of borrower. Completely different from what you are looking for.

A no-frills mortgage is just a mortgage with lower prepayment privileges and quicker closing dates. Often 30 days closing and prepayment privileges of only 5%. This would still allow you to prepay up to $20,000 per year on a $400,000 mortgage... more then most ever use. Other than that, they are still full-featured mortgages for the most part, so the term 'no-frills' is a little misleading. No-frills mortgages haven't been very common in the past couple of years however.
I know they are very different things. However, it would seem to me that lower credit score borrowers might on average be more interested in no frills mortgages than higher credit score borrowers. I may be mistaken, but that would be my suspicion. The fact that RMG was specifically targeting lower credit score borrowers, made me wonder also if they had more no frills mortgages as well.

Also, for context: The posts relate to my previous exchange with ace. He had stated his lowest rates have always been 1-year fixed or variable, whereas I had mentioned that the few times I had actually inquired about 1-year fixed, they were usually at best equivalent to the 2-year fixed rate quotes I was getting, or else sometimes worse. However, I was not interested in no frills mortgage rates, and had asked ace if his 1-year fixed (one of which was from RMG) was no frills.

BTW, while I have not used more than 5% of the pre-payment room every year, most years I have, with some years well over 10%. Why? Because I much prefer setting up my mortgage payment schedule with a bit lower payments, but allowing me to pay way more when possible. I do this by choosing longer amortizations than I have needed, but increase the payments using flexible monthly (or non-monthly) pre-payment options. Also, in many of these mortgages, once you have made pre-payments, you can also lower payments up to the same amounts. This allows a lot of flexibility in my repayment schedule. As mentioned earlier in the thread, it allows me to vary my payment amounts nearly at will. This is impossible with no frills mortgages.
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Aug 8, 2012
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BC
EugW wrote:
Aug 6th, 2017 7:40 am
Mainly banks this time. Last time more lenders though.

I don’t know what RMG is.

Edit:

Ah I see. Small Toronto lender. Are you talking about no frills mortgages BTW? I never get no frills mortgages.
No I'm not talking about no-frills mortgages. I don't even think those exist/are very common at all these days. I've never had a mortgages with lower than 15 or 20% prepayment privileges as far as I can remember. Maybe I had a 10/10 once? I dunno because I don't prepay ... with rates so low I'm glad my money has been going into investments for the last 2 decades that have trounced my mortgage rates.
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Deal Addict
Feb 2, 2014
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fasbo2017 wrote:
Aug 4th, 2017 6:53 pm
Hi all,

Have an accepted offer for a house here in BC for $934k with completion Sept 29. Looking at sites like ratespy and ratehub, it appears there is a significant difference in rates on offer depending on whether the downpayment is greater/less than 20%. Trying to figure out if the rate savings is sufficient to cover the CMHC insurance premium+interest over the life of the mortgage.

Could anyone steer me to some calculations or an online calculator to work that through, or perhaps a previous discussion in this thread? (I believe I have seen some past discussions here, and will search again now).

Some voices on here also apparently advocate taking the money not put into the downpayment and investing it. That adds another layer to the calculations, not to mention potential risk, but might be worth considering. On the other hand, with the extra mortgage size that would require, and interest draw over the life of the mortgage, that would seem to pose some obvious challenges to make it come out ahead -- but I would love to see some examples one way or the other.

Example inputs:

Scenario 1 (20%down):
934k-20% dp=747200 mortgage @2.2% (lowest today as per ratehub -- MortgagePal)

Scenario 2 (19%down):
934k-19% dp=777,723 (mortgage+CMHC) @1.99% (lowest today as per ratehub -- CanWise or HSBC)

Scenario 3 (10%down+invest remainder):
934k-10%down=866,659 mortgage+CMHC @1.99% (lowest today as per ratehub -- CanWise or HSBC) -Invest dp difference: $93,400
I'm guessing, however, that I would not qualify for the higher mortgage that results from this, in any case, since I think scenarios's 1&2 will already be near my max -- so this may be a non-starter.

So, attempting to crunch the first two scenarios on my own...

Results after 25yr:
Scenario 1: $970,981 total paid ($223,781 total interest) (3237/mo pmnt)
scenario 2: $986,858 total paid ($209,135 total interest) (3290/mo pmnt)

Is this close to correct?

So this seems to be telling me that even though putting 19% down results in a lower interest bill overall, it is still a larger total cash outlay needed, by $15,877
over the life of the mortgage. I assume I could shave it even closer to the CMHC trigger threshold, say, 19.99% down, and perhaps generate a closer race.

Any confirmations or other thoughts appreciated.
Forget Ratehub. They don't display the best rates as they advertise, they simply only display rates of the brokers that pay them $$$.

Best rate for a high ratio mortgage is 1.95% 5-year variable.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Mortgage Agent and Real Estate Sales Representative
Newbie
Aug 3, 2017
4 posts
Vancouver, BC
I need to be able to waive my financing subject by the end of this week. Is there an approach that will allow me to do that by getting a firm confirmation from a lender, but still leave the door open to shop around before the actual completion? Or must I actually commit to a lender this week if I need that confirmation?
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Feb 2, 2014
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Toronto
fasbo2017 wrote:
Aug 7th, 2017 2:03 pm
I need to be able to waive my financing subject by the end of this week. Is there an approach that will allow me to do that by getting a firm confirmation from a lender, but still leave the door open to shop around before the actual completion? Or must I actually commit to a lender this week if I need that confirmation?
In BC, you can waive conditions at any time. If you have an approval from one lender already, I see no reason why you can't waive conditions based on that (unless that approval is not tolerable at all).
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
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Member
Oct 17, 2003
259 posts
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Etobicoke
What is the best 1 or 2 year fixed rates with big Bank in Ontario?
Deal Addict
Apr 26, 2004
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GTA
DentDude wrote:
Aug 5th, 2017 3:10 pm
I wonder though, as for all the cheaper rates I have seen advertised, is this most likely only for high ratio mortgages plus for properties under $1 million. My situation is a renewal for a property over $1 million and a low-ratio mortgage.
You can get a rate very close to that and have your fees paid for. When is your renewal date?
Mortgage Specialist in the GTA here to answer all your questions.
Deal Addict
Apr 26, 2004
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GTA
GenX wrote:
Aug 8th, 2017 10:12 am
What is the best 1 or 2 year fixed rates with big Bank in Ontario?
We need to know some more information.

When is your renewal date?
Who is your current lender?
How much mortgage is currently remaining?
What is the value of the house?
Are you looking to refinance?

You will be able to get a better answer once we get some more information Slightly Smiling Face
Mortgage Specialist in the GTA here to answer all your questions.
Deal Addict
Feb 2, 2014
3579 posts
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Toronto
GenX wrote:
Aug 8th, 2017 10:12 am
What is the best 1 or 2 year fixed rates with big Bank in Ontario?
Any reason you're limiting yourself to a Big Bank?
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Mortgage Agent and Real Estate Sales Representative
Member
Oct 17, 2003
259 posts
11 upvotes
Etobicoke
CdnRealEstateGuy wrote:
Aug 8th, 2017 12:50 pm
Any reason you're limiting yourself to a Big Bank?
I have a renewal in less then 30 days and wanted to know what starting point to use. I provide of there institution but they told me they do not compete with them.
Newbie
Sep 4, 2008
2 posts
Burlington
PaulMeredith wrote:
Aug 6th, 2017 3:24 pm
The lender offering the 5 year fixed at 2.64% does not like us posting this rate with their name publicly as it is a special rate and not their general offering. It's a large credit union lending primarily in the GTA and Ottawa areas.
Does it mean its a bought down rate?
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Feb 2, 2014
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Vic D wrote:
Aug 8th, 2017 1:01 pm
Does it mean its a bought down rate?
Correct.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Mortgage Agent and Real Estate Sales Representative
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Sep 13, 2011
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Vic D wrote:
Aug 8th, 2017 1:01 pm
Does it mean its a bought down rate?
Yes, this is correct. All the rates we post on this board are bought down rates and the lowest that we can offer.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
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Aug 8, 2012
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GenX wrote:
Aug 8th, 2017 12:57 pm
I have a renewal in less then 30 days and wanted to know what starting point to use. I provide of there institution but they told me they do not compete with them.
You need to inform them that they DO compete with them because that's where you will renew and lose your business to.
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Newbie
Aug 7, 2017
1 posts
Hi all,

I have made an offer on a house in Ottawa, Ontario. The buying price is $450,000 and I am putting down $100,000. I have not been pre-approved for a mortgage and need to have one by the time my offer expires (Saturday August 12th at 7:59pm). I have no debts, a full-time job with the government (5+ years) and an A+ credit score. What is the best mortgage rate I can get (5 year fixed or variable). I have all my documentation ready, just need a good mortgage vehicle to apply to.

Thanks in advance

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