Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

Deal Addict
Sep 24, 2006
1160 posts
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Bump in case this was missed yesterday....
hank755 wrote: I currently have a mortgage from Tangerine Bank on my principal residence. I'm looking at refinacing to get a better rate and also to increase my available HELOC.

Here are the details of my residence:

-How much is the mortgage owing? $289K
-Current rate? 3.09
-When is your renewal date? Oct 2022
-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property? $1.3M
-Which city is the property located in? Richmond Hill
-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental? Owner-occupied
-Who is your current lender? Tangerine Bank
-Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? Yes, total HELOC available is $150K of which currently $76K has been taken out which was used as partial downlpayment for a rental property.
-Current HELOC rate - 3.85%
-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? No
-When did you buy the property? July 2015

According to the Tangerine Rep, it will cost me $3500 to break my mortgage.

Here are some details about my rental property (not sure if it matters):

-How much is the mortgage owing? $400K
-Current rate? 3.04
-When is your renewal date? July 2023
-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property? $500K
-Which city is the property located in? Toronto
-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental? Rental
-Who is your current lender? RBC
-Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? No
-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? No
-When did you buy the property? July 2019
-Current Rental Income - $2100/mth

Wife and I have higher than average income and great credit.

Does it make sense to break my Tangerine mortgage? I see rates being offered around 2.5%. Not sure if they apply to my situation but doesnt hurt to ask. Also, what is involved in "porting" my HELOC amount of $76K?

Thanks!
Deal Guru
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Feb 2, 2014
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mystery101 wrote: What if signing happens this week but closing is mid September? Would HSBC honour any rate changes up until the actual closing date despite signing mortgage papers earlier?
Is this for a purchase or transfer?

You can still shop around up until your mortgage closes.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker/Owner - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
Sr. Member
Mar 9, 2014
660 posts
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Ottawa
AliZaidi89 wrote: Quebec, do the rate vary by province?
I see HSBC offering 2.49% on there website, I am going try to get other banks beat that.
Yes the rates may vary even by branch. Big banks do not usually match HSBC and National Bank. You may be able to get lower rate from smaller lenders but there are caveats, for example may get dinged $300+ in "FCT closing fee".
Also beware TD has collateral mortgage which means down the road may cost $1000 extra in legal fees to clear it from your name.
Newbie
Mar 20, 2013
24 posts
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Lethbridge
Obviously I won't be able to switch lenders in just 2 days and should have acted on this much sooner. I have been offered a "best" rate of 2.68% on a 4 year fixed through Scotia. As my current mortgage expires, it will be transferred to an open mortgage at around 7% (roughly $20 a day). While I would like to minimize the amount of time I am on that absurd rate, I hope it might be worth it to wait for a Bank of Canada rate drop in September or perhaps an even better option through the kind people on this forum. Thank you.
-How much is the mortgage owing? 319,967.91
-Current rate? 2.49
-When is your renewal date? August 24 '19
-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property? 450,000.00
-Which city is the property located in? Lethbridge AB
-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental? Owner occupied
-Who is your current lender? Scotiabank
-Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? No
-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? No
-When did you buy the property? August 2009
-Current Rental Income - 0
Newbie
Aug 25, 2012
4 posts
1 upvote
MARKHAM
New purchase. What do you mean by shop around until the mortgage closes? Shouldn't we leave time in between mortgage signing and closing for lawyers to finalize everything?
Member
Aug 21, 2019
280 posts
81 upvotes
First time home buyer shopping for rates:

-What is the purchase price? $500,000
-How much is the down payment? 220, 000
-Where it the property located? Ottawa, ON
-When is the closing date? October
-Will the property be owner-occupied or a rental? owner occupied
Sr. Member
Dec 21, 2010
602 posts
280 upvotes
Toronto
I would not be considering variable right now, with the discount the fixed rates are going for currently.
I took variable in Feb 2019, when the variable rate was lower than fixed. [I suppose it was correct decision at that time.
Now I'm trying to figure out if to pay penalty and go to 2.24% fixed, if that is even a thing.
Last edited by NeedaSuit on Aug 22nd, 2019 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jan 13, 2007
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My lender is matching the HSBC fixed rate of 2.59 with the option of a 4 OR 5 year term on 300K owing.

We’re unsure which term to take and I’m asking those out there, which would you rather take given current and forecasted rates?

Thanks in advance.
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Sep 13, 2011
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NeedaSuit wrote: I would not be considering variable right now, with the discount the fixed rates are going for currently.
I took variable in Feb 2019, when the variable rate was lower than fixed. [I suppose it was correct decision at that time.
Now I'm trying to figure out if to pay penalty and go to 2.24% fixed, if that is even a thing.
2.24% 5 year fixed is available for high ratio (insured) purchases only. It's not available for switches unfortunately.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker, Author - CityCan Financial Corp
(lic. 10532)
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Sep 19, 2012
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PaulMeredith wrote: Is variable the better way to go? Answer this.... how big of a gambler are you?
+1. This is fantastic advice. Going variable is a gamble on future rates. You could come out a winner or a loser versus what you can lock up with fixed rates. Most folks are risk averse so gravitate to fixed rates. I personally have never had a fixed rate loan nor would I ever get one - but that’s a very personal decision that I’ve made while understanding my risk tolerance. I also modelled a bunch of interest rate scenarios that I thought were reasonable to see where I’d end up.

The only other point to make is that often the prepayment penalties on variable rates are cheaper because you’re always paying 3 months interest (whereas a fixed rate deal may entail an IRD).
Nikola Alaica, CPA, CA | Tax, Accounting, Mortgages
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PaulMeredith wrote: Motus is a pretty new online lender that deals with public directly, so not too familiar with them yet.

As per fixed vs. variable, few people are choosing variable these days. Very rarely are variable rates higher than fixed. The last time this happened was after the US housing collapse in 2008 when variable 'discounts' went from prime -0.60% to prime +1.00%. Within a couple of years, they settled back down again.

Fast forward to today. The discounts on variable are now deeper than ever with variable rates as low as prime -1.25% (2.70%) - prime -0.85% (3.10%), depending on your situation. Comparatively, the lowest 5 year fixed rates range from 2.39% to 2.74%, again, depending on your situation.

The lower rates are for purchases or switches which are either insured, or have 35% or greater down payment or equity (property value must be under $1 million OR property needed to have been purchased prior to Nov. 30, 2016). The higher end of the spectrum are for purchases / switches over $1 million and 30 year amortization.

Normally, I like to see a discount on variable rate of at least 0.50% below fixed before I can comfortably suggest it. Right now, variable rates are 0.31% - 0.36% higher. We also do have to take into consideration economic conditions. Chances are very strong that the Bank of Canada will drop prime rate, which could happen as early as the next scheduled rate announcement on September 4th. The Bank of Canada seems to think that this is not necessary. So will they drop on September 4th? It may, but i'm thinking that they are going to hold off for the time being. Of course, time will tell.

I do think that they will be forced to cut prime rate by the end of the year however. There have been at least 30 central banks around the world who have already cut their rate so far this year. The Bank of Canada is not one of them however. So how much longer can they hold off? Again, time will tell. They still want to look at increasing their rates at their first opportunity, however I think we all know that this is not going to happen any time soon.

It's also likely that the Bank of Canada will do a 2nd cut at some point in 2020. If you choose variable rate today, and the BOC follows through with two rate cuts, then your variable rate would drop down below today's lowest 5 year fixed rates. That is, IF the banks match the full rate cut. The last two times the BOC cut their rate, the banks did not match the full 0.25% cut, and only cut their prime rate by 0.15%. The question here is, will they do it again? If they continue this trend of only cutting 0.15%, then taking a fixed rate today would still be lower, even after two more cuts to prime rate.

So is it a good idea to take variable rate these days?

I personally think fixed rate is still the better way to go and there are a lot of 'IF's' required for you to come out ahead with variable. Is it possible that the Bank of Canada could come through with 4 rate cuts over the next couple years? Possible... but that is major speculation. All of this is speculation, and no one knows for sure what is going to happen. One year ago, it was widely predicted that we would see 2-3 prime rate hikes in 2019 alone. There were predictions of fixed rates hitting 5-6% by 2021. It really is amazing how fast things can change.

Is variable the better way to go? Answer this.... how big of a gambler are you?

Hope everyone finds this helpful. :)

Paul
Keep in mind, that the penalty to break a variable rate mortgage is only 3 months of interest. While I do agree that fixed rate mortgages are the way to go for most, if you think you break your mortgage soon (ie selling your property and won't be able to port), then a variable rate mortgage still may be the best option.

Right now I am working on a renewal for an investor who is certain they want to cash out fairly soon. A fixed rate mortgage would be a bad option.

All I am saying, is that a variable rate mortgage may still be the best option for some readers.
Last edited by CdnRealEstateGuy on Aug 22nd, 2019 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker/Owner - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
Sr. Member
Dec 3, 2004
541 posts
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North York
Hi,

I have a renewal coming up on Oct 30th, it's for a condo in Toronto downtown, approx 200k or so left. Have a tenant living in a condo right now. Looking for a 5y fixed, what can I get? RBC (current lender) offered 2.9%.

Thanks!

-How much is the mortgage owing?
Around 200-220k, can find out precise amount if needed

-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property?
Around 600k

-Which city is the property located in?
Toronto downtown

-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental?
Rented out

-Who is your current lender?
RBC

-Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage?
No

-Is the mortgage CMHC insured?
No

-When did you buy the property?
4y on Oct 30th

-When is your renewal date?
Oct 30th
Last edited by Soulcatcher on Aug 22nd, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sep 19, 2012
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angryaudifanatic wrote: Do a blend and extend with HSBC first for free and then break from the mortgage. As you and I have discussed its how I got out of mine with minimal prepayment penalty!!!!! (fluke on my part)
Think about the implications of this!!!! It's awesome!
True. If you break your fixed rate mortgsge with any of the big banks in the first year you’re going to be paying 3 months interest.

YYCMatt wrote: Starting to look around for renewal options, think I am going to better than my current rates by the looks of it. Any advice? Should I drop a payment to get above 35% if I can
Yes sir! If you can get to 35% equity RFA will offer a 2.39% 5-year fixed (no bonafide sales clause or stiff prepayment penalties).
Brenna7777 wrote: Mortgage transfer/renewal:
-How much is the mortgage owing? 242,000
-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property? 550,000-600,000
-Which city is the property located in? Calgary
-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental? owner
-Who is your current lender? First national
-Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? Yes, 27,000
-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? no
-When did you buy the property? Oct. 2014
-When is your renewal date? Oct 28, 2019
- Amortization 17 years 3 months (I think)
Who is your HELOC with? If it’s not FN you can get a free switch with MCAP at 2.39% (but that has a bonafide sales clause). Alternatively without that caveat you can get 2.44% with RFA.

errolpgjr wrote: Hi looking for rates on a early refinance for my rental property. Thanks
-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property? $400,000
-What is the current mortgage owing $197,000
-How much do you want to borrow (refinance)?
$80,000
-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental? Rental
-Where is the property located? Mississauga
-When do you want to close on the refinance? Asap
Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? No
-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? Yes
-When did you buy the property? June 2015
-When is your renewal date? June 2020
-Current Lender: first national
-Current rate: fixed 2.69%
Instead of a refinance try and get a HELOC in 2nd positon. You’ve got an insured rental and I’d try and keep that intact as rates would be really low (compared to typical rental deals). Shop around at Motusbank or Simplii or any other lender that will go in 2nd positon.
daclewes wrote: Obviously I won't be able to switch lenders in just 2 days and should have acted on this much sooner. I have been offered a "best" rate of 2.68% on a 4 year fixed through Scotia. As my current mortgage expires, it will be transferred to an open mortgage at around 7% (roughly $20 a day). While I would like to minimize the amount of time I am on that absurd rate, I hope it might be worth it to wait for a Bank of Canada rate drop in September or perhaps an even better option through the kind people on this forum. Thank you.
-How much is the mortgage owing? 319,967.91
-Current rate? 2.49
-When is your renewal date? August 24 '19
-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property? 450,000.00
-Which city is the property located in? Lethbridge AB
-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental? Owner occupied
-Who is your current lender? Scotiabank
-Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? No
-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? No
-When did you buy the property? August 2009
-Current Rental Income - 0
The 2.69% isn’t that bad. Likely best you’re going to get is 2.49% with Motusbank - no broker will organize that for you though.

Being honest - at 20%-30% equity, the best 5-year switch rate is probably Motusbank (rate being 2.49%). Nobody else can come close. This is a full featured deal. Again, we brokers can’t do that deal.

Note: Manulife could be better if you have a group plan (savings/medical) with them as you could get the same 2.49% plus $1k cash back. Broker will get paid peanuts (0.1% of mortgage balance) so you won’t see many of them offering this as a solution.
Niccus wrote: First time home buyer shopping for rates:
-What is the purchase price? $500,000
-How much is the down payment? 220, 000
-Where it the property located? Ottawa, ON
-When is the closing date? October
-Will the property be owner-occupied or a rental? owner occupied
Best rate is probably 2.39% (without any bonafide sales clauses or funky prepayment penalties based on %age of balance). Plenty of lenders offering this (RFA, XMC, Marathon). You may be able to negotiate even lower as XMC and Marathon don’t limit broker buydowns!
Sirjfc wrote: A week ago I signed a Service Agreement document with mortgage broker A. My mortgage is up for renewal in November 2019. After reading this thread, I noticed that there are better mortgage rates. Mortgage broker A is not responding to my emails asking for a lower rate.

Is the Service Agreement with a mortgage broker legally binding? What are my options, if any?
Depends on the agreement - most brokers don’t make it exclusive but who knows what your broker plopped in there. Best have a read and see what they said. As I said, generally brokers don’t require exclusivity but the ultimate source of what your agreed will he said agreement.

Good luck all!

Nikola Alaica, CPA, CA | Ahlaker Financial | Tax, Accounting, Mortgages
Nikola Alaica, CPA, CA | Tax, Accounting, Mortgages
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Jul 31, 2019
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Montreal
First time home buyer shopping for rates:
-What is the purchase price? $270,000
-How much is the down payment? 54000 (20%)
-Where it the property located? Edmonton, Alberta
-When is the closing date? September 4
-Will the property be owner-occupied or a rental? owner occupied

I would also like to know best rates for 25 vs. 30 year amortization.
Newbie
Sep 1, 2017
63 posts
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ahlaker wrote: ...
It states that I am 'expected to stay with the broker'. Am I stuck with them?
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Sr. Member
Jun 25, 2001
605 posts
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Kitchener, ON
For a purchase of a property:

-What is the purchase price? $1,125,000
-How much is the down payment? $900,000 ($675,000 from sale of our current home)
-Where it the property located? Cambridge, Ontario
-When is the closing date? September 30, 2019
-Will the property be owner-occupied or a rental? Owner-occupied

Our current home closes October 4, so we will need a financing option to cover the 5-day period. We own our current home outright (no mortgage balance), but there is a HELOC registered on title with Scotia (zero balance).
Last edited by dummjock on Aug 25th, 2019 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Nov 9, 2017
1121 posts
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rateconnect wrote: Best rate available is 2.39% for a 5 yr fixed term
20/20 prepayments

Phil
No, best rate in market right now is Duca which is 1.99%. Usually this thread doesn't talk about offers that are not broker centered like those from credit unions (Meridian, Duca,...)
Newbie
Mar 20, 2013
24 posts
13 upvotes
Lethbridge
The 2.69% isn’t that bad. Likely best you’re going to get is 2.49% with Motusbank - no broker will organize that for you though.

Being honest - at 20%-30% equity, the best 5-year switch rate is probably Motusbank (rate being 2.49%). Nobody else can come close. This is a full featured deal. Again, we brokers can’t do that deal.
Thanks very much Nikola for your time and honesty. I know that Scotiabank is probably feeling generous with that rate but it's amazing what a difference a couple basis points can make. Am i crazy to hold off signing just yet with the bank of Canada poised to announce the interest rates outlook in September?
Newbie
Jul 10, 2007
92 posts
82 upvotes
Niagara
CdnRealEstateGuy wrote: Keep in mind, that the penalty to break a variable rate mortgage is only 3 months of interest. While I do agree that fixed rate mortgages are the way to go for most, if you think you break your mortgage soon (ie selling your property and won't be able to port), then a variable rate mortgage still may be the best option.

Right now I am working on a renewal for an investor who is certain they want to cash out fairly soon. A fixed rate mortgage would be a bad option.

All I am saying, is that a variable rate mortgage may still be the best option for some readers.
It's worth clarifying whether a variable mortgage is open or closed. An open mortgage can still have a penalty based on the terms, but it will most likely be less than 3 months of interest. A quick calculation of the interest rate difference vs penalty cost would give you an indication of which is the better option.
Sr. Member
Jun 25, 2001
605 posts
140 upvotes
Kitchener, ON
Boondoggler wrote: NOT too late. I was in a similar situation with RBC. They refused to go lower then 3.05% because I was a loyal life long customer who also had large line of credit (nothing owing) with them. Also closing date was less than a month away and so they thought I was just bluffing. Spoke to HSBC, moved everything over within matters of days and I ended up getting 2.69%. Felt so good to give the middle finger to RBC. They lost all my business with them.
Did HSBC charge a fee for doing the bridge? If so, what was the fee?

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