Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

  • Last Updated:
  • Oct 23rd, 2017 7:27 am
Newbie
Jun 10, 2012
42 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto
Hello,

First time home buyer here, I am closing in a few days and just wanted to know if it was possible to get a better mortgage rate.

I live in Ontario, the house is New & was bought for 588k it will be occupied by my wife and I, with a co-signer on the title. CIBC gave us a 5 year fixed term with 3.27%-3.3% (I don’t have the final numbers yet), my question is, could I have done better? My mortgage agent said if I found a lower rate before closing, CIBC would match it
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 10, 2010
1301 posts
144 upvotes
My situation:
* Initial mortgage more than 20% down (not insured) with London Life, non collateral.
* Later transferred/switched to TD, now TD term is coming up. Remaining balance $440,000.

Question hoping someone can help:

1. Would my current TD mortgage be collateral or non-collateral? I have heard different stories, some say because it's TD therefore it's collateral, some say even though TD normally does collateral but since it was switched from a non-collateral therefore the same non-collateral is retained. Which is true? I called TD and TD is (or pretends to be) clueless about this.

2. I want to take the renewal opportunity to get some equity out of the house. In other words, I want to have the new lendor pay me more than my current balance of $440,000, I "pocket" the difference and in turn I will borrow more against the house value. Is this what they called "refinance"? If house is currently worth 1M, does that mean the max I can re-borrow is $800,000 and hence "pocket" $360,000? (I'm not interested in an ongoing credit facility like a HELOC, just a one time cash out.)

3. What is the best rate given my situation (assuming I have satisfying income and credit score)? I generally prefer a shorter term (1/2 years rather than 3/5 years). And in this rising rate environment I'm generally more comfortable with a fixed rate (than variable).

Any PM is welcome as well. Thank you very much.
Newbie
Mar 14, 2006
16 posts
6 upvotes
Toronto
GreenMortgages wrote:
Oct 6th, 2017 10:02 pm
... As low as 2.89% 5 year fixed, and prime minus 1.15% 5 year variable would be available...
I had a death in the family and had to stay out of the country for some time and ended up loosing tracking of my 5-year fixed closed mortgage maturing this year. It just ticket when I received the automatic renewal paperwork in the mail today.

Can the experts here let me know if I still have time to get approved to move my mortgage to another institution at rates like Connor mentioned given that current mortgage will mature on Nov 2, 2017? The default rates RBC sent me for renewal are quite high. Despite the recent prime increase I am leaning towards a variable closed mortgage. Thanks!
Newbie
Oct 9, 2017
2 posts
CdnRealEstateGuy wrote:
Oct 10th, 2017 10:25 pm
When is your closing date?

Also, what is the purchase price and the mortgage amount?
600k purchase price with 20% down.
Closing next month
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
3300 posts
1061 upvotes
Toronto
illest23 wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 1:09 am
Hello,

First time home buyer here, I am closing in a few days and just wanted to know if it was possible to get a better mortgage rate.

I live in Ontario, the house is New & was bought for 588k it will be occupied by my wife and I, with a co-signer on the title. CIBC gave us a 5 year fixed term with 3.27%-3.3% (I don’t have the final numbers yet), my question is, could I have done better? My mortgage agent said if I found a lower rate before closing, CIBC would match it
The lowest 5 year fixed right now is 2.94%, or if you have less than 20% down payment, then lower than this. With three days before closing though it's far too late to be able to switch lenders. Also, what your being told by your bank and what they actually do are two very different things. I can tell you with confidence that they will not match this rate for you unfortunately.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
3300 posts
1061 upvotes
Toronto
513263337 wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 1:47 am
My situation:
* Initial mortgage more than 20% down (not insured) with London Life, non collateral.
* Later transferred/switched to TD, now TD term is coming up. Remaining balance $440,000.

Question hoping someone can help:

1. Would my current TD mortgage be collateral or non-collateral? I have heard different stories, some say because it's TD therefore it's collateral, some say even though TD normally does collateral but since it was switched from a non-collateral therefore the same non-collateral is retained. Which is true? I called TD and TD is (or pretends to be) clueless about this.

2. I want to take the renewal opportunity to get some equity out of the house. In other words, I want to have the new lendor pay me more than my current balance of $440,000, I "pocket" the difference and in turn I will borrow more against the house value. Is this what they called "refinance"? If house is currently worth 1M, does that mean the max I can re-borrow is $800,000 and hence "pocket" $360,000? (I'm not interested in an ongoing credit facility like a HELOC, just a one time cash out.)

3. What is the best rate given my situation (assuming I have satisfying income and credit score)? I generally prefer a shorter term (1/2 years rather than 3/5 years). And in this rising rate environment I'm generally more comfortable with a fixed rate (than variable).

Any PM is welcome as well. Thank you very much.
If you just simply switched your mortgage to TD, meaning you didn't take out any additional funds or increase your amortization, then your mortgage with TD would not be a collateral charge. If it were a refinance, or a brand new mortgage with TD, then it would be collateral. Not surprised about TD being clueless here. Major banks don't always put the most knowledgeable people in the role of mortgage 'specialist' unfortunately, so sometimes it can be hard to get the right answer or advice. There are some great people working for the banks, it's just that they can be hard to find sometimes. This actually applies equally to brokers as well. I digress.

What you are describing in point 2 is a refinance, which is something that is very commonly done. You are correct that you can go up to 80% of the properties value. Some lenders may have a maximum equity take out limited to $200K, but there are definitely options to take out the full amount ($360K in your example) if needed. The lender will need to know what you will be using the funds for.

As per your request, i'll PM you with some more info.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
3300 posts
1061 upvotes
Toronto
JoKeRz wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 3:17 am
I had a death in the family and had to stay out of the country for some time and ended up loosing tracking of my 5-year fixed closed mortgage maturing this year. It just ticket when I received the automatic renewal paperwork in the mail today.

Can the experts here let me know if I still have time to get approved to move my mortgage to another institution at rates like Connor mentioned given that current mortgage will mature on Nov 2, 2017? The default rates RBC sent me for renewal are quite high. Despite the recent prime increase I am leaning towards a variable closed mortgage. Thanks!
Yes, there is still time, but you would need to act fairly quickly if you want to close by November 2nd. If it ends up going a little over, then it's not a big deal and it's a common situation to be in. RBC would just put you into an open mortgage until the new mortgage closes. It's always best to verify this with the bank, just to be on the safe side, but in most cases, it's done automatically when you don't return the renewal paperwork.

The rates Connor was quoting are for high ratio only, meaning that your original purchase would have had to have been done with LESS than 20% down payment and therefore CMHC insured. For those who purchased with 20% or greater down payment, there are still some great rates available, just not quite that low.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Member
May 1, 2017
472 posts
109 upvotes
JoKeRz wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 3:17 am
I had a death in the family and had to stay out of the country for some time and ended up loosing tracking of my 5-year fixed closed mortgage maturing this year. It just ticket when I received the automatic renewal paperwork in the mail today.

Can the experts here let me know if I still have time to get approved to move my mortgage to another institution at rates like Connor mentioned given that current mortgage will mature on Nov 2, 2017? The default rates RBC sent me for renewal are quite high. Despite the recent prime increase I am leaning towards a variable closed mortgage. Thanks!
Hi there,

Very sorry to hear about the death in your family. My condolences.

There are still excellent rates in the market - and the rates quoted are still achievable. As mentioned, you would have to move relatively quickly though as you are beginning to run out of time. And, yes as Paul mentioned, those rates are for insured mortgages only. You could get around 2.99% - 2.94% for a 5 year fixed mortgage, and prime minus 0.75% - 0.80% if your mortgage is not insured, but is insurable, though.

Regards,

Connor
_________________________________
Connor Green
Mortgage Agent
Concierge Mortgage Group
#12179
Sr. Member
Jan 13, 2005
795 posts
61 upvotes
Montreal
I want to do a HELOC with my duplex. (no mortgage right now). What is the best rate (and where ?) for a 2 or 3 years term ? I am also open to 1 y fixed or 5 year variable.
Just want a great rate.
I am with TD for my banking
Newbie
Jun 10, 2012
42 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto
PaulMeredith wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 8:48 am
The lowest 5 year fixed right now is 2.94%, or if you have less than 20% down payment, then lower than this. With three days before closing though it's far too late to be able to switch lenders. Also, what your being told by your bank and what they actually do are two very different things. I can tell you with confidence that they will not match this rate for you unfortunately.
Hi, it is 20% down payment. Can you tell me where I could find proof of this 2.94%? I do believe you when you say they will not match it, but I have to at least call the agents bluff since she said she would match any rate I found.

Thanks!
Deal Addict
Aug 21, 2007
4768 posts
225 upvotes
Markham
what are the 2 yr fixed rates at thees days? 180k mortgage in Ontario.
Member
May 1, 2017
472 posts
109 upvotes
adeel wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 2:08 pm
what are the 2 yr fixed rates at thees days? 180k mortgage in Ontario.
Hi there,

2 year fixed rates are in and around 2.89%. You can get a 3 year fixed at 2.54% if the mortgage amount is less than 70% of the value of the property! Whats the value of your property and is the purpose of the mortgage a purchase, refinance, or renewal/switch?

Regards,

Connor
_________________________________
Connor Green
Mortgage Agent
Concierge Mortgage Group
#12179
Newbie
Sep 3, 2017
21 posts
Hi Experts,
Any unofficial whispers about the new OSFI stress tests? Is it true, they may increase 20% down to 25% to qualify with contract rates?!
Thanks.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 10, 2010
1301 posts
144 upvotes
PaulMeredith wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 8:56 am
If you just simply switched your mortgage to TD, meaning you didn't take out any additional funds or increase your amortization, then your mortgage with TD would not be a collateral charge. If it were a refinance, or a brand new mortgage with TD, then it would be collateral. Not surprised about TD being clueless here. Major banks don't always put the most knowledgeable people in the role of mortgage 'specialist' unfortunately, so sometimes it can be hard to get the right answer or advice. There are some great people working for the banks, it's just that they can be hard to find sometimes. This actually applies equally to brokers as well. I digress.

What you are describing in point 2 is a refinance, which is something that is very commonly done. You are correct that you can go up to 80% of the properties value. Some lenders may have a maximum equity take out limited to $200K, but there are definitely options to take out the full amount ($360K in your example) if needed. The lender will need to know what you will be using the funds for.

As per your request, i'll PM you with some more info.
Thanks for your response. I have two more questions hoping you or someone else can help here. I'll take a look at your PM too and respond separately there when I have a chance to do more research on what I want to do.

1. Assuming if my current mortgage at TD is a collateral one, if I do a switch to a non-collateral lender (seems there are some lenders that support switching/transfering collateral without a refinance), would my new mortgage remain as collateral (because it came from TD) or would be it a non-collateral?

2. I understand that refinances usually don't get me a good rate (as opposed to a simple switch). If I do a refinance, by the time the refinanced mortgage is up for renewal, would it then be eligible for a switch rate or would it still be stuck on a refinance rate? The reason I ask this is if the answer is former, then it seems to me it makes sense to refinance for a term that is as short as possible (let's say a year) so that I only "suffer" the "bad" rate for a year, and quickly move on to a "better" rate?
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
3300 posts
1061 upvotes
Toronto
513263337 wrote:
Oct 11th, 2017 5:01 pm
Thanks for your response. I have two more questions hoping you or someone else can help here. I'll take a look at your PM too and respond separately there when I have a chance to do more research on what I want to do.

1. Assuming if my current mortgage at TD is a collateral one, if I do a switch to a non-collateral lender (seems there are some lenders that support switching/transfering collateral without a refinance), would my new mortgage remain as collateral (because it came from TD) or would be it a non-collateral?

2. I understand that refinances usually don't get me a good rate (as opposed to a simple switch). If I do a refinance, by the time the refinanced mortgage is up for renewal, would it then be eligible for a switch rate or would it still be stuck on a refinance rate? The reason I ask this is if the answer is former, then it seems to me it makes sense to refinance for a term that is as short as possible (let's say a year) so that I only "suffer" the "bad" rate for a year, and quickly move on to a "better" rate?
If your current mortgage is a collateral charge, and we do a collateral switch as some lenders are now accepting, then the mortgage will be converted from a collateral charge to a standard charge mortgage (non-collateral).

If you were to refinance, and at the end of the term you wanted to switch, then you would be eligible for the switch rates. You would not pay the refinance rate unless you were once again refinancing at that time.
It would not make sense to take a shorter term for the sole reason being so you can proceed as a straight switch at the end of the term. The difference really isn't that much and we have no idea where rates will be in a year. You could end up taking a 1 year term for example with the intention of switching in a year just so you can save 25bps at that time. But who is to say that rates won't be 1% higher at that time? I'm not saying they will be, but i'm saying that we have no idea. Would be a pretty big gamble.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)

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