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tdu wrote: I know he was a great amateur wrestler and is a big dude. But that was almost 10 years ago. Who knows if he's been putting anything in his body since then. It's a little tough to believe that freakish size is all genetics.
I'm guessing you're in the camp that also believes Lance Armstrong is also using something in his body... who's the oldest at Tour De France 2009 at 37 and is only 8 seconds behind the leader.

Guilty until proven innocent eh?
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gwu wrote: I'm guessing you're in the camp that also believes Lance Armstrong is also using something in his body... who's the oldest at Tour De France 2009 at 37 and is only 8 seconds behind the leader.

Guilty until proven innocent eh?
I am not in any 'camp' . I am pointing out that Lesner's size is freakish for ANY human being. I do think he is suspect. And again, it's just my opinion. That had been clearly stated. If he keeps winning good for him. I was only stating that I enjoy watching fights with different techniques more than watching monsters just ground and pound each other. Again my opinion, I just stated I hope that doesn't become a new trend.

I don't hate him though as I pointed out in my last post, I just hope he does evolve a little more attitude wise. And even for the people who do hate him, you can root for him to get beaten then. Either way it's interesting. So despite my views above, it's hard to see how this isn't a good thing for the UFC.
I don't think Noguiera has the power in his punches/kicks to put Lesnar down or in any sort of trouble. I doubt he has the power to out manuever Lesnar when he's on his back to pull off a submission... as he is older and less powerful than Mir.
And the fact that Nog has been through some absolute wars over the last few years. The guy is only in his 30's and he looks like he's 50.
Question: Is anyone left in Affliction after Fedor beats Barnett? and, how many more fights is on Fedor's contract?
They could put him against that Brett Rogers dude who beat Arlovski. I think that would be rushing Rogers, but after that last fight he is one of their bigger name heavyweights now. He's being hailed as a big future prospect. It would be kinda cool to see a striker of that calibre against Brock, but I can't imagine that fight happening anytime soon.

Which brings up another conversation. Do you guys think Affliction will be running low on fights in general after the next event? They don't have a huge roster, and they have had so many big matches (especially after the next event). As gwu mentioned, they may not even have an opponent for Fedor in their roster after the next event.
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tdu wrote: I am not in any 'camp' . I am pointing out that Lesner's size is freakish for ANY human being. I do think he is suspect. And again, it's just my opinion. That had been clearly stated. If he keeps winning good for him. I was only stating that I enjoy watching fights with different techniques more than watching monsters just ground and pound each other. Again my opinion, I just stated I hope that doesn't become a new trend.

I don't hate him though as I pointed out in my last post, I just hope he does evolve a little more attitude wise. And even for the people who do hate him, you can root for him to get beaten then. Either way it's interesting. So despite my views above, it's hard to see how this isn't a good thing for the UFC.



And the fact that Nog has been through some absolute wars over the last few years. The guy is only in his 30's and he looks like he's 50.
Mir is easily one of the top 5 HW's in the UFC and should at least be in everyone's top 10 worldwide. Frank Mir is in his prime and is a deadly fighter. He would easily beat anyone else in the UFC right now in the HW division. People say Nog had a bad fight but if you've seen all of Nogs fights, they all go like that, except this time, Mir's stand-up was so good that he KOed him.

Mir's mistake yesterday was underestimating Frank Mir and having no respect for Lesnar's game whatsoever. He was happy when Lesnar was smashing him in the face. Lesnar had a game plan and utilized it.

Lesnar is freakishly big but too accuse him of using steroids without proof is totally wrong. He has already had a few fights and obviously passed all those prior drug tests. If you look at his NCAA photos, he is only a bit smaller than he is now and that was more so due to him being on the more 'muscular' side in his younger days.
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thechampion116 wrote: Mir is easily one of the top 5 HW's in the UFC and should at least be in everyone's top 10 worldwide. Frank Mir is in his prime and is a deadly fighter. He would easily beat anyone else in the UFC right now in the HW division. People say Nog had a bad fight but if you've seen all of Nogs fights, they all go like that, except this time, Mir's stand-up was so good that he KOed him.
Again, my opinion is just that. An opinion. I don't think the UFC's heavyweight division is that strong when they are missing 2 of the top 5 heavyweights, and 5 of the top 10 (on most rankings. taking Overheem into account, it can be 6 on some lists).

Mir has not faced a ton of great opponents or had a ton of matches. I clearly said, I reserve judgement of him for when he does. I don't think he can be judged on his matches against Nog or Lesner. Judge him when he's had 4-5 more good fights (same applies to Lesner). A lot of people think he may have plateued, and right now I share that opinion. But I would gladly admit I am wrong when if and when it happens. I don't dislike Mir at all.
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So the UFC has some pretty dominant champs that may take a while to dethrone:

WW - GSP looks like he'll be champ for a while after he took apart Alves, injured groin and all, and there are some pretty slim pickings in the WW division right now

MW - Anderson Silva seems like he is content with how he is fighting to win, don't see that changing (although I'd love to see Hendo fight him again, although I don't think that will be Silva's next fight)

LHW - the Machida era has begun, but I guess we'll have to see how he does against Shogun (which I am pretty sure he'll do very well), but Rampage/Sugar against Machida should be interesting

HW - Little early, but Brock, is just...a BEAST, his next fight will be interesting.

IMO, Baby Jay is not gonna be able to defend next month, and in the forseeable future, I only see the LW belt moving around between different fighters.
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tdu wrote: I know he was a great amateur wrestler and is a big dude. But that was almost 10 years ago. Who knows if he's been putting anything in his body since then. It's a little tough to believe that freakish size is all genetics.
tdu wrote: I am not in any 'camp' . I am pointing out that Lesner's size is freakish for ANY human being. I do think he is suspect. And again, it's just my opinion.
Sure he's big but he is not freakish by any stretch of the imagination. He is simply athletically gifted being big and quick. You should watch some of his training videos, he trains extremely hard. I remember seeing a video of him hauling tree trunks on his shoulders while running.

Let's look at his profie:
# Height- 6?3? (191 cm)
# Weight- 265 (120 kg)
http://www.mmabettingblog.com/2008/11/0 ... r-profile/

Then look at some NFL Combine participants (tight ends) from College:
Name Position Height Weight College
Beckum, Travis TE 6'3" 243 Wisconsin
Branson, Marquez TE 6'2" 247 Central Arkansas
Bronson, Jared TE 6'4" 253 Central Washington
Casey, James TE 6'3" 246 Rice
Coffman, Chase TE 6'6" 244 Missouri
Cook, Jared TE 6'5" 246 South Carolina
Drew, Davon TE 6'4" 256 East Carolina
Gronkowski, Dan TE 6'6" 255 Maryland
Hill, Anthony TE 6'5" 262 North Carolina State
Ingram, Cornelius TE 6'4" 245 Florida
Johnson, David TE 6'2" 260 Arkansas State
Mandeville, Brian TE 6'6" 258 Northeastern
Morrah, Cameron TE 6'3" 244 California
Myers, Rob TE 6'3" 243 Utah State
Nelson, Shawn TE 6'5" 240 Southern Miss
Pascoe, Bear TE 6'5" 251 Fresno State
Pettigrew, Brandon TE 6'5" 263 Oklahoma State
Phillips, John TE 6'5" 251 Virginia
Quinn, Richard TE 6'4" 264 North Carolina
Sperry, Kory TE 6'5" 238 Colorado State
Williams, Eddie TE 6'1" 239 Idaho

http://www.nfl.com/combine/players#play ... r-position


Lesnar would qualify as an averaged sized NFL player.

In fact, Lesnar was cut by the Vikings after he tried out:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1871211

So no, he not a freak of nature. Simply athletically gifted and an extremely hard worker.
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CSR wrote: Sure he's big but he is not freakish by any stretch of the imagination. He is simply athletically gifted being big and quick. You should watch some of his training videos, he trains extremely hard. I remember seeing a video of him hauling tree trunks on his shoulders while running.

Let's look at his profie:
# Height- 6?3? (191 cm)
# Weight- 265 (120 kg)
http://www.mmabettingblog.com/2008/11/0 ... r-profile/

Then look at some NFL Combine participants (tight ends) from College:
Name Position Height Weight College
Beckum, Travis TE 6'3" 243 Wisconsin
Branson, Marquez TE 6'2" 247 Central Arkansas
Bronson, Jared TE 6'4" 253 Central Washington
Casey, James TE 6'3" 246 Rice
Coffman, Chase TE 6'6" 244 Missouri
Cook, Jared TE 6'5" 246 South Carolina
Drew, Davon TE 6'4" 256 East Carolina
Gronkowski, Dan TE 6'6" 255 Maryland
Hill, Anthony TE 6'5" 262 North Carolina State
Ingram, Cornelius TE 6'4" 245 Florida
Johnson, David TE 6'2" 260 Arkansas State
Mandeville, Brian TE 6'6" 258 Northeastern
Morrah, Cameron TE 6'3" 244 California
Myers, Rob TE 6'3" 243 Utah State
Nelson, Shawn TE 6'5" 240 Southern Miss
Pascoe, Bear TE 6'5" 251 Fresno State
Pettigrew, Brandon TE 6'5" 263 Oklahoma State
Phillips, John TE 6'5" 251 Virginia
Quinn, Richard TE 6'4" 264 North Carolina
Sperry, Kory TE 6'5" 238 Colorado State
Williams, Eddie TE 6'1" 239 Idaho

http://www.nfl.com/combine/players#play ... r-position


Lesnar would qualify as an averaged sized NFL player.

In fact, Lesnar was cut by the Vikings after he tried out:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1871211

So no, he not a freak of nature. Simply athletically gifted and an extremely hard worker.
those weights are all the guys natural weights though
Lesnar is close to 300lbs and cuts to 265

and he's pure muscle
you've obviously never seen him in person because he is definiately freakishly huge
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Viper98 wrote: those weights are all the guys natural weights though
Lesnar is close to 300lbs and cuts to 265

and he's pure muscle
you've obviously never seen him in person because he is definiately freakishly huge
ummm no. There are plenty of DEs and LBs who need to cut there weights 30-40lbs+ so they're capable of playing football during the season. Offseason, or non-playing weight, -these football players are just as massive as Brock.
You've got plenty of guys who are cut and just as big (Javon Kearse, Julius Peppers, Shawn Merriman, etc... who are easily just as big with less fat.
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kcotoulas wrote: Hard to listen to Goldberg and Rogen sometimes. Very biased
No Kidding, at the end of the fight Rogan was talking like he had no idea who won and it was an extremely close fight then when the decision is passed through he acts like Belcher was robbed. Sadly, Rogan has always appeared to have a bias against the asian imports lol.
thechampion116 wrote: Hendo rematch with Silva now I guess, but even then I don't think he will beat Silva.

They are talking prehaps about the winner of Maia/Mardquart being in line for the shot. I wouldnt mind seeing the winner of Mardquart/Maia fighting Hendo for the shot but Hendo said that if he is not fighting Silva next he would like a top 205'er next.

On the Lesnar thing, the dude is a monster. I know by NFL standards his size is not all the extreme but this is a guy who had no high level football ever played and got a tryout with a NFL team based on his credentials of pure athletics only. He played the Pre-season with them, and was a late cut and was offered a spot to play in NFL Europe. I can not remember what this guy ran or benched but from what I remember it was freakish for his size and thats why he was offered a tryout with an NFL team.
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[QUOTE]Another thing, when I say a "WWE steroid freak", that is the persona and the actions he demonstrates. He runs around the ring salivating (and into the camera), walks up and crap talks Frank Mir while he's recovering, flips off the crowd, then knocks the UFC sponsors and talks about going home to bang his wife in the post fight interview. These are lame antics like you would see at a WWE event. It's completely classless, and it's not a stretch to see why some people dislike him SO much. I know it's UFC and not golf, but that doesn't mean you need to act like an animal.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he'll last long in the UFC if he doesn't respect the position he's in, since fans are what drives the UFC and this biggest fighters have also always been the biggest gentleman.

As stated, the wrestling persona only goes so far.

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googoo wrote: I don't think he'll last long in the UFC if he doesn't respect the position he's in, since fans are what drives the UFC and this biggest fighters have also always been the biggest gentleman.

As stated, the wrestling persona only goes so far.

Brent
I disagree. A-Hole Lesnar will be much more popular than a gentleman Lesnar. Being the "villian" isn't a unique to just wrestling, it's universal. Whether it's Bonds, Artest, T.O, etc, they will bring in the fans that love them, but more importantly bring in fans that hate them and want to see them fail. Lesnar hating, UFC fans aren't going to say, "oh I'm not watching that PPV because Lesnar is fighting and I hate that guy." Instead they will be saying, "I can't wait to see that Lesnar douche get pummelled by so-and-so."
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shannn wrote: So the UFC has some pretty dominant champs that may take a while to dethrone:

WW - GSP looks like he'll be champ for a while after he took apart Alves, injured groin and all, and there are some pretty slim pickings in the WW division right now

MW - Anderson Silva seems like he is content with how he is fighting to win, don't see that changing (although I'd love to see Hendo fight him again, although I don't think that will be Silva's next fight)

LHW - the Machida era has begun, but I guess we'll have to see how he does against Shogun (which I am pretty sure he'll do very well), but Rampage/Sugar against Machida should be interesting

HW - Little early, but Brock, is just...a BEAST, his next fight will be interesting.

IMO, Baby Jay is not gonna be able to defend next month, and in the forseeable future, I only see the LW belt moving around between different fighters.
Agreed.
WW - GSP will/should be able to destroy the winner of Kampmann/Swick.

MW - It doesn't sound like Hendo gets the next shot at Anderson. It really looks like the winner of the Maia and Marquardt fight, which leaves Henderson in a weird spot.

LHW: I don't see Shogun being able to deal with Machida's elusiveness. Machida's going to pick him apart easily. The fight between Rampage/Rashad should be good, but the winner of that will get decimated by Machida as well.. so yeah, he's set for at least 2 more title defences and possibly more.

HW: Carwin vs. Velasquez for a shot at Brock. I see Carwin winning this, he has way more striking power (although probably not as accurate as Kongos) than Cheik, and we all saw how Cain relied on his ground game to get past Kongo. Carwin's background in Wrestling will allow him to overpower Cain in most situations and ground and pound him out. It'll be Brock vs. Carwin next I think.

LW: I hope Kenflo beats BJ. Pleeeeeeeeeease.It'll be Diego vs. winner of that fight (I think)
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tdu wrote: I am not in any 'camp' . I am pointing out that Lesner's size is freakish for ANY human being. I do think he is suspect. And again, it's just my opinion. That had been clearly stated. If he keeps winning good for him. I was only stating that I enjoy watching fights with different techniques more than watching monsters just ground and pound each other. Again my opinion, I just stated I hope that doesn't become a new trend.

I don't hate him though as I pointed out in my last post, I just hope he does evolve a little more attitude wise. And even for the people who do hate him, you can root for him to get beaten then. Either way it's interesting. So despite my views above, it's hard to see how this isn't a good thing for the UFC.



And the fact that Nog has been through some absolute wars over the last few years. The guy is only in his 30's and he looks like he's 50.



They could put him against that Brett Rogers dude who beat Arlovski. I think that would be rushing Rogers, but after that last fight he is one of their bigger name heavyweights now. He's being hailed as a big future prospect. It would be kinda cool to see a striker of that calibre against Brock, but I can't imagine that fight happening anytime soon.

Which brings up another conversation. Do you guys think Affliction will be running low on fights in general after the next event? They don't have a huge roster, and they have had so many big matches (especially after the next event). As gwu mentioned, they may not even have an opponent for Fedor in their roster after the next event.

Actually, he's from Minnesota. Most Minnesotan's are off Scandinavian stock and are around his size. He's probably a little bit more built due to working out etc. But people just don't understand how gigantic most Minnesotan's are.
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googoo wrote: I don't think he'll last long in the UFC if he doesn't respect the position he's in, since fans are what drives the UFC and this biggest fighters have also always been the biggest gentleman.

As stated, the wrestling persona only goes so far.

Brent
Tito Ortiz says no
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xaltair wrote: Tito has a lot of fans, or had...
the point he's making is Tito played the bad boy persona like Lesnar
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googoo wrote: I don't think he'll last long in the UFC if he doesn't respect the position he's in, since fans are what drives the UFC and this biggest fighters have also always been the biggest gentleman.

As stated, the wrestling persona only goes so far.

Brent
If you watched the post fight press conference, he apologized for his antics and said it was unprofessional. Also, he reminded everyone of his WWE background and promotional coaching by the best in the business Vince Mcmahon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JmVJq-tpI
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CSR wrote: If you watched the post fight press conference, he apologized for his antics and said it was unprofessional. Also, he reminded everyone of his WWE background and promotional coaching by the best in the business Vince Mcmahon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JmVJq-tpI
Yeah he apolgized and stated that he's a very sore loser and doesn't like losing

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