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Deal Fanatic
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Feb 20, 2006
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Mintmaster wrote: People, calm down. Go read Jake Rossen's take on this to see an unbiased take. He scored it 50-45 during the fight but calling all rounds close. Then he rewatched it and said it should be 48-47 Rua, recanting his claims that it was robbery. Two Sherdog judges scored it the same, but with disagreement on the rounds.

One close round out of five going the wrong way is not robbery. It's simply judges not being in tune with the fans for scoring criteria. They don't have the same viewpoint we do, either.
I think the big fuss is that, even after re-viewing the event, and after all the press tabulated their scores, everyone still had Shogun winning.

How is it possible that all the press had Shogun winning (anywhere between 50-45 to 48-47), but none of the 3 unbiased judges didn't have Shogun winning?
It is a huge coincidence, but still...I'm pretty pissed off for Shogun.

He loses a lot of $$ because of this, but at least he gained a lot of fans. I wonder how many fans Lyoto lost.

I honestly think Lyoto didn't take this fight every seriously.
He died for me, I live for him
Deal Addict
Mar 21, 2004
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sexpuppet6000 wrote: I didn't think it was obvious who won that fight. I think it was close. I also think anyone who disagrees that it wasn't close, is bias.

Having said that, tonight I watched my first mma fight at a bar. What I noticed is that most people, in this particular bar anyways, resembled that of a fast food type mma fan. This means all they want to see is a barbaric rumble with lots of blood and lots of violence, and the winner should be determined by who looks the craziest.

This bout, imo, was a very technical fight, and I think it was a very close decision.
I agree it was a very technical fight but it was not all that close. Each round is judged on its own. IMO, Shogun won 4 of 5, but it appears most people think he won 3. I was rooting for Machida, but did not think he was even close to winning.

Even if you think it was "close" but agree that Rua (just like everyone is) won then you are agreeing in a sense he was robbed because he is losing on a title, and a large amount of money...

There has yet to be a good reason why Machida won a unamious decision other than "you have to beat the champ decisively to be the champ" crap arguement.
Spray wrote: I'm not biased at all.

Shogun clearly won that fight, how 3 judges got it wrong, and they're already talking about rematch...

I think the sports a joke.
So is the sport of basketball a joke because some ref's were involved in "rigging" games? Come on...
Deal Addict
Aug 5, 2004
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That's just reinforces Rossen's analysis. In rd1, Machida landed many shots to the body, and I can see why a judge would weigh those more than Shogun's leg kicks. Didn't judges take some flack for valuing leg kicks too much giving splits to Griffin and Jardine? Rd2 is Shogun's, unless you think head shots overrule the leg kicks (legitimate argument even if I disagree). Rd3 is close, but Machida's flurry at the end wins it. Rd4 and Rd5 should go to Shogun, but don't have a lot of action so ancillary factors come into play.

Should be 48-47 Rua, but 48-47 Machida isn't robbery. There's all sorts of scores that could have come about.
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Aug 5, 2004
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DiploDocus wrote: who gives a crap about more peoples opinions on the fight
You're right. Why should anyone pay attention to your endless whining...
Deal Addict
Apr 9, 2007
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Should be 48-47 Rua, but 48-47 Machida isn't robbery. There's all sorts of scores that could have come about.
Its a robbery to shogun because shogun deserved to win that fight for the LWH title.

Read from almost all sites that did the play by play for this fight, shogun won on ALL of their score cards, Joe Rogan and Dana White both agree that shogun should have won. ALSO, if your on sherdog right now, the place is going nuts.. Fightmetric just proves shogun landed more shots and engaged and attempted more strikes in the fight.

1. The win bonus was taken away from him.

2. He loses the opportunity to be making the money champions make.

So thus, shogun was robbed from both opportunities for more money.
Deal Addict
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Jul 29, 2006
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This was a robbery because this fight was a unanimous decision. When looking at the fights stats, there is no way this should be the case.

If it was a split decision, especially with cecil peoples judging, I could understand. But when the CEO,every fighter at the post fight conference and every popular fight website out there has it for the other guy, something shady is going on.

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
Savage Science: 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua

credit: dystemper(poster from sherdog) tabulated the results.

If you machida's body language before his hand was raised, he thought he lost.
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Deal Addict
Aug 5, 2004
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Maybe I'm getting old, but I hate exaggeration as it diminishes the meaning of a word. Robbery is something you use for blatant, unequivocally incorrect calls. If you look at Sherdog's scoring, Breen gave Machida the first and second round, Knapp gave Machida the second and third round, while Rossen (ESPN/Sherdog) called the first a tossup while the third was Machida's.

That's not a consensus at all, and in fact two out of those three think Machida won the second and third, and they're split on the first. Everybody including me feels that Shogun won a close decision, but there's no unanimity on choosing three rounds that Shogun won. I ask again: How is that robbery?

Rewatch the first round without the notion of "holy cow, Shogun is giving Machida a challenge!" and without the commentary. You'll see that while Shogun was pressing forward, he landed just one body kick, one punch, and a bunch of meaningless knees to the thigh. Machida, OTOH, landed several powerful knees to the body and a couple punches. Despite my earlier call, I now think Machida won that round.

UberN00b, while you're right about the win bonus, champions do not necessarily make more money. Fighters make money depending on their popularity and negotiation skills. Regardless of the decision, Shogun is seen as the winner, and won a lot of skeptics with his fight (myself included). He's going to be ranked as the #2 LHW by all publications, and it would have been that way even if he won due to the closeness of the fight and quality of recent competition.

The whole notion of "defending champ" is silly anyway. Matt Hughes is a 9-time welterweight champ even though most of those were defenses. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you're the defender or challenger. It's a title fight either way. You're only champ until your next fight gets scheduled, and after that you have to earn it all over again. Machida is now no more clear a #1 in the eyes of the public than Griffin was when he beat Rampage.
Deal Addict
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May 6, 2006
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I also believe that Rua won that fight by a close margin but it doesn't really surprise me that it went to Machida, just couldn't believe it was a UD! But there's that old adage that you have to beat the champ and take the title away and not just get by. Who knows, it sets up for a great rematch.
Newbie
Apr 15, 2009
49 posts
Cambridge
Mintmaster wrote:
Robbery is something you use for blatant, unequivocally incorrect calls.
FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
Savage Science: 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua
Mintmaster wrote:
Rewatch the first round without the notion of "holy cow, Shogun is giving Machida a challenge!" and without the commentary. You'll see that while Shogun was pressing forward, he landed just one body kick, one punch, and a bunch of meaningless knees to the thigh. Machida, OTOH, landed several powerful knees to the body and a couple punches. Despite my earlier call, I now think Machida won that round.
I'm so tired of this excuse, the "listen to it with no sound" doesn't fly. Did the 15,000+ fans at the stadium have headphones listening to Rogan? Lyoto's expression, Dana's comments, the fact that not ONE sports writer gave it to Lyoto speaks volumes. Rua's aggression and control and more attempts to engage the action didn't even look like it was considered.

It wasn't a total domination, but this WAS a robbery in every sense of the word. Lyoto isn't undefeated and he's not the champion.

Machida fans can argue until they get blue in the face (and it doesn't matter since he won), but this is one example where it's clear that a man has earned a victory he didn't deserve.

It's a very tough day to support MMA, I'm used to this crap in boxing, but when you have not one legitimate person aside from 3 judges supporting Machida's decision win, there needs to be a big change.
Deal Fanatic
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Feb 20, 2006
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Mintmaster wrote: UberN00b, while you're right about the win bonus, champions do not necessarily make more money. Fighters make money depending on their popularity and negotiation skills. Regardless of the decision, Shogun is seen as the winner, and won a lot of skeptics with his fight (myself included). He's going to be ranked as the #2 LHW by all publications, and it would have been that way even if he won due to the closeness of the fight and quality of recent competition.
You don't necessarily earn more from the UFC, but you do earn more from:
a) win bonus money for winning that night
b) sponsors will pay the champ obvsiously more money
c) as a champ, you are an automatic headliner for a UFC event, (I might be talking outta my arse, but I think it's the case) which means you get a %age cut of the PPV's you headline
d) you are guaranteed more fights as a champion

So he may not be earning more per fight, but he sure does lose A LOT of potential money

You can make the argument that it was a close fight and could have gone either way. But with everyone seeing Shogun as the victor, it's hard to believe that not 1 judge had him winning 3 out of the 5 rounds.
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Deal Addict
Aug 26, 2002
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Thats why Dana always says try to finish.
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Oct 31, 2008
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Machida is a paper champ, Shogun is the real LHW champ and will remain so in my mind. The old Shogun from PRIDE is back and he's going to KO Machida back into his karate kid movie in the next fight.
Deal Expert
Feb 19, 2008
16990 posts
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Mintmaster wrote:
Rewatch the first round without the notion of "holy cow, Shogun is giving Machida a challenge!" and without the commentary. You'll see that while Shogun was pressing forward, he landed just one body kick, one punch, and a bunch of meaningless knees to the thigh. Machida, OTOH, landed several powerful knees to the body and a couple punches. Despite my earlier call, I now think Machida won that round.

Round 1 Shogun landed 19 strikes, Machida landed 11

Shogun won round 1


http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


Strikes

Round 1
Shogun 19
Machida 11


Round 2
Shogun 21
Machida 7


Round 3
Shogun 19
Machida 15


Round 4
Shogun 10
Machida 3


Round 5
Shogun 13
Machida 6


Total
Shogun 82
Machida 42



I think it's clear who won the fight
Deal Addict
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Sep 6, 2006
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Viper98 wrote: Round 1 Shogun landed 19 strikes, Machida landed 11

Shogun won round 1


http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html


Strikes

Round 1
Shogun 19
Machida 11


Round 2
Shogun 21
Machida 7


Round 3
Shogun 19
Machida 15


Round 4
Shogun 10
Machida 3


Round 5
Shogun 13
Machida 6


Total
Shogun 82
Machida 42



I think it's clear who won the fight
Thanks for typing that up Viper.
And of those 82 strikes, I'm going to say *at least* 20 of those were kicks that even YOU felt hurt your body just by watching at home/bar.
Machida had a couple knees which reminded me of the knee that put down Ortiz, but Shogun seemed to be able to walk through them.

Great seeing Shogun back, I just hope he can keep it up + stay healthy.

I foresee Shogun.vs.Machida rematch right away at their next available UFC without a main event.

105/Nov: Couture/Vera (LHW)
106/Nov: Lesnar/Carwin (HW Title Fight)
107/Dec: Penn/Sanchez (LW Title Fight)
108/January/Year end show: *So far on paper* A.Silva vs. Belfort (MW Title Fight)
109/Feb/Vegas: Not sure yet
110/Feb/Australia: Not sure yet

If they can land an event in Brazil mid-early 2010, I can see them putting the rematch there. That would be 1 ridiculous main event + crowd. I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow get a soccer stadium haha

GSP and his WW belt defence isn't on there yet, but considering the #1 contender match is coming up in 3 weeks, the average layoff between fights of 4 months, I can see it being in March 2010-ish (hopefully in Canada? :) )
Deal Fanatic
Mar 19, 2006
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Anyways, the fight is history now but HEY!.. lets look to the bright side...

I think this controversy is great for the rematch as White said that there will be a rematch asap. Now Both Machida and Rua will have to fight the next fight all out and leave everything in the cage.

They both have to prove themselves next time around.
Deal Expert
Feb 19, 2008
16990 posts
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London
gwu wrote: Thanks for typing that up Viper.
And of those 82 strikes, I'm going to say *at least* 20 of those were kicks that even YOU felt hurt your body just by watching at home/bar.
Machida had a couple knees which reminded me of the knee that put down Ortiz, but Shogun seemed to be able to walk through them.

Great seeing Shogun back, I just hope he can keep it up + stay healthy.

I foresee Shogun.vs.Machida rematch right away at their next available UFC without a main event.

105/Nov: Couture/Vera (LHW)
106/Nov: Lesnar/Carwin (HW Title Fight)
107/Dec: Penn/Sanchez (LW Title Fight)
108/January/Year end show: *So far on paper* A.Silva vs. Belfort (MW Title Fight)
109/Feb/Vegas: Not sure yet
110/Feb/Australia: Not sure yet

If they can land an event in Brazil mid-early 2010, I can see them putting the rematch there. That would be 1 ridiculous main event + crowd. I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow get a soccer stadium haha

GSP and his WW belt defence isn't on there yet, but considering the #1 contender match is coming up in 3 weeks, the average layoff between fights of 4 months, I can see it being in March 2010-ish (hopefully in Canada? :) )
I don't think they even know who's next in line for a shot at GSP
if Swick wins he'll get it but they can't give Hardy a title fight if he beats swick...... I think if Hardy wins then the winner of Fitch and Alves willget the next title shot

GSP wont be ready to fight anytime soon anyways since he can't even train full time yet
Deal Addict
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Jul 21, 2006
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it was a setup for sure.. im sure shogun was probably told if he wanted to win he needed to do it through KO decision. Like Rogan was saying repeatedly during the fight.. to be champion u have to beat the champion.. judges decision isnt enuff. in my opinion clearly shogun had the most hits and hardest hits.. even if they judges were to argue that they based this match on # of hits landed still it would have been shogun. or number of hardest hits.. still shogun..

or basing fight on heavy punches/strikes... stil shogun RUa. I am a fan of machida but still its clear to any1 and every1 except the judges that shogun shoudl have had the belt tied around his waist last night.

This kinda fight is bad for UFC and its fan base. this fight was rigged with conditions.
Deal Expert
Feb 19, 2008
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ludhi wrote: it was a setup for sure.. im sure shogun was probably told if he wanted to win he needed to do it through KO decision. Like Rogan was saying repeatedly during the fight.. to be champion u have to beat the champion.. judges decision isnt enuff. in my opinion clearly shogun had the most hits and hardest hits.. even if they judges were to argue that they based this match on # of hits landed still it would have been shogun. or number of hardest hits.. still shogun..

or basing fight on heavy punches/strikes... stil shogun RUa. I am a fan of machida but still its clear to any1 and every1 except the judges that shogun shoudl have had the belt tied around his waist last night.

This kinda fight is bad for UFC and its fan base. this fight was rigged with conditions.
I don't think the fight was rigged
judges have NOTHING to do with the UFC
it was just garbage decision

if it was rigged Dana wouldn't have said Rua won the fight

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