Personal Finance

Oh Scotiabank, how could you?

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 9th, 2017 3:38 pm
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[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1831 posts
663 upvotes
asa1973 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:37 am
You could not get credit card without signing the application. And you could not get "insurance' without accepting it either.
99% it was a check-box in app form that you click "automatically" ( I do agree they tried their best to favor it, but without YOUR consent they could not sign you on it, still)

Pre-approval just mean that you'd be rather not declined , but oit still will be "normal" application. And you do OVERESTIMATED hard request effect on credit score imo. BTW, - seems you're doing too much applications, no other way for them to appear on your profile...
Absolutely true that it was an automatic initial of box.

Here's the difference. When I have bought cell phones at Telus ( approx. four times), each time I initial a bunch of boxes. Each time, I am given a brief summary of the content of that paragraph. The banks don't do this, so we blindly trust and then get trapped into things we don't want.

This was the purpose of my thread yesterday. It's not that banks are automatically signing people up for things they don't want or didn't ask for; rather, they aren't being sufficiently transparent when people come in to sign documents.

And yes, over the last three years, I have done a lot of applications. I am trying to stop which is why I am not actively submitting applications. Rather, I simply accept offers when they're given to me. However, i have learned something. Preapprovals are NOT true approvals; they're just an application in disguise.

Am I overestimating the impact? It is listed as item #1 affecting my credit score of 675.
Last edited by bewiseman on Nov 8th, 2017 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1831 posts
663 upvotes
funkynassau123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:47 am
bewisem did you cancel the card?
No, the damage to my credit is already done. I might as well accept it at this point.
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Jan 20, 2016
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Houston, TX
bewiseman wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 12:13 pm

Am I overestimating the impact? It is listed as item #1 affecting my credit score of 675.
Maybe if you'd have several of them each month it could reduce your score, however according to CreditCarma
Hard inquiries

LOW IMPACT
I could not say about that specific application of Scotiabank. So far over dozens application I made, I never saw those "optional" checkboxes PREchecked by bank. Rather they all are NOT checked by default. Thus what worked for me - I check usually them one by one and trying to submit application - in most cases it highlight the boxes I HAVE to check ...

However many of them do "like" to play with font size etc trying to catch someone who will "automatically" put marks on all of them. Well, it do works as we could see :(
Make the Trudeau drama teacher again!
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1831 posts
663 upvotes
asa1973 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 1:02 pm
Maybe if you'd have several of them each month it could reduce your score, however according to CreditCarma



I could not say about that specific application of Scotiabank. So far over dozens application I made, I never saw those "optional" checkboxes PREchecked by bank. Rather they all are NOT checked by default. Thus what worked for me - I check usually them one by one and trying to submit application - in most cases it highlight the boxes I HAVE to check ...

However many of them do "like" to play with font size etc trying to catch someone who will "automatically" put marks on all of them. Well, it do works as we could see :(
Actually, this wasn't an online app. This was all done in person at the appointment. He informed me that I was pre-approved. I thought all the "application" process was already done, and I was simply accepting a done deal. This is why I didn't read carefully. I thought I was just signing off on a typical card holder agreement that I've seen many times before.
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Aug 24, 2016
2178 posts
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asa1973 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 1:02 pm
Maybe if you'd have several of them each month it could reduce your score, however according to CreditCarma



I could not say about that specific application of Scotiabank. So far over dozens application I made, I never saw those "optional" checkboxes PREchecked by bank. Rather they all are NOT checked by default. Thus what worked for me - I check usually them one by one and trying to submit application - in most cases it highlight the boxes I HAVE to check ...

However many of them do "like" to play with font size etc trying to catch someone who will "automatically" put marks on all of them. Well, it do works as we could see :(
Well, it is in the lower impact side of the score (10%).
Meaning inquiries can affect your score by up to 90 points, with the high scale in Canada being 900.
90 points is a lot.
How many applications it would take to actually affect you by 90 points, is anyone’s guess.
But even if it affected you by 35 points, that can make or break an approval.
In @bewiseman case, that 35 points would put him over 700, which is much better than 675.
[OP]
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Jul 18, 2016
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coolintheshade wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 1:34 pm
Well, it is in the lower impact side of the score (10%).
Meaning inquiries can affect your score by up to 90 points, with the high scale in Canada being 900.
90 points is a lot.
How many applications it would take to actually affect you by 90 points, is anyone’s guess.
But even if it affected you by 35 points, that can make or break an approval.
In @bewiseman case, that 35 points would put him over 700, which is much better than 675.
Given that it is listed as the primary impacting issue, followed by one 30 day late left over from March of 2012, I think it is likely affecting me more at the high end of that 90 - maybe 60 or 70 points.

Edit: Actually, the order of the flags have reversed today.

What's Impacting Your Score

Below are the aspects of your credit profile and history that are important to your Equifax credit score. They are listed in order of impact to your score - the first has the largest impact, and the last has the least.

Worst rating ever on monoline credit cards trades. ( 1 - 30 day late in March 2012)
Number of inquiries in previous 12 months. ( 4 enquiries)
Total balance for open national card trades. ( 36%)
Member
Mar 14, 2010
233 posts
92 upvotes
Toronto
I think most people fail to understand that pre-approval means exactly what it says: pre ( suffix means before) approval. "Before the approval", in other words. This is not "approval" at all.

It reminds me of the time I was shopping at Zellers for an easy chair. "Is this chair leather?" I asked the clerk. "Yes", he replied. "It's faux leather".

Who knew that we'd need a classical education to avoid clever traps set by bankers and advertisers!
[OP]
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Jul 18, 2016
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pickles02 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 6:57 pm
I think most people fail to understand that pre-approval means exactly what it says: pre ( suffix means before) approval. "Before the approval", in other words. This is not "approval" at all.
That's one way to interpret "pre". Here's another: you were approved before (pre) you applied. In my case, I thought I was approved before(pre) I arrived at my appointment.
Penalty Box
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Mar 23, 2016
753 posts
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dealguy2 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:57 am
Phone the CEO's office about this. I did that once and the results were very surprising.
Considering the CEO earns > 10M and runs a crappy bank...

OP - Always found Scotia more incompetent than most
"Obama is the quintessence of all that is wrong with America today.. people looking at the superficial which is skin color and ignoring idiotic behavior." - the poster AndySixx 😲 :facepalm:
Penalty Box
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Mar 23, 2016
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pickles02 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 6:57 pm
I think most people fail to understand that pre-approval means exactly what it says: pre ( suffix means before) approval. "Before the approval", in other words. This is not "approval" at all.
I didn't realize that. So the letters in the mail, saying you are preapproved - just call us - incur a hard credit check?
"Obama is the quintessence of all that is wrong with America today.. people looking at the superficial which is skin color and ignoring idiotic behavior." - the poster AndySixx 😲 :facepalm:
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Jan 27, 2004
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coolintheshade wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 1:34 pm
Well, it is in the lower impact side of the score (10%).
Meaning inquiries can affect your score by up to 90 points, with the high scale in Canada being 900.
90 points is a lot.
How many applications it would take to actually affect you by 90 points, is anyone’s guess.
But even if it affected you by 35 points, that can make or break an approval.
In @bewiseman case, that 35 points would put him over 700, which is much better than 675.
Just my own anecodctal situation...
I appiedfor an loc. Got approved and accepted.
Score dropped 40 points!!!

1 month later it goes up 25... so it doesnt seem so bad. Its like a system to prevent "credit seekers" which is a tell tail sign of impending trouble or a big shopping spree. Lol.

So i guess if you apply for new credit every 6 months it aint that bad at all.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 24, 2008
5167 posts
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Toronto
Cool story and also very melodramatic Disappointed But Relieved Face. Hard inquiries are very diffcult to cope with I am afraid. My condolences, OP,sorry this happened to you. I don't know what I would do if it happened to anyone I know...
Illegitimi non carborundum
[OP]
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Jul 18, 2016
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ksgill wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 8:16 pm
Cool story and also very melodramatic Disappointed But Relieved Face. Hard inquiries are very diffcult to cope with I am afraid. My condolences, OP,sorry this happened to you. I don't know what I would do if it happened to anyone I know...
Blah, blah, blah. Facetiousness, duly noted. I don't like being mislead or fooled. I'm happy for you that getting fooled is something that you can accept easily.
Last edited by bewiseman on Nov 8th, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[OP]
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Jul 18, 2016
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UrbanPoet wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 8:02 pm
Just my own anecodctal situation...
I appiedfor an loc. Got approved and accepted.
Score dropped 40 points!!!

1 month later it goes up 25... so it doesnt seem so bad. Its like a system to prevent "credit seekers" which is a tell tail sign of impending trouble or a big shopping spree. Lol.

So i guess if you apply for new credit every 6 months it aint that bad at all.
I have that flag on my credit report because the accumulation of enquiries over the last year is sufficient to drag down the score more than that -40/+25 that you are suggesting. I was really making an effort to end these enquiries until this fully corrected on my credit report. I also made this point to the person I spoke to at my appointment. He assured me that there would be no hard enquiry. He was wrong, or simply lied.

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