Personal Finance

Oh Scotiabank, how could you?

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 9th, 2017 3:38 pm
Tags:
Deal Addict
Aug 24, 2016
2212 posts
1119 upvotes
On a positive RFD note, you might have noticed downvoting is now no more as of this morning
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1840 posts
672 upvotes
coolintheshade wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 11:21 am
On a positive RFD note, you might have noticed downvoting is now no more as of this morning
I'm relieved you weren't able to down vote my posts. You were obviously considering it. :) :)
Member
Mar 14, 2010
234 posts
92 upvotes
Toronto
nmclean wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 8:41 am
No, that's a myth spread by people who don't understand grammar. This is true where "pre" precedes a noun, like pre-tax or pre-game. With verbs, "pre" is an adverb describing how it was done: in advance.
Nmclean, "approval" is a noun, not a verb. Now if the adjective "approved" had been used, as in "your application is pre-approved" I would agree with your analysis.
.... But where OP has pointedly asked if he was pre-approved for the account and the representative assured him that yes, he was, there is no way around it: it was a lie. The rep is either deliberately lying, incompetent, or both.
I think we are all agreed on this point.
Deal Addict
Aug 24, 2016
2212 posts
1119 upvotes
bewiseman wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 12:54 pm
I'm relieved you weren't able to down vote my posts. You were obviously considering it. :) :)
I have no reason to downvote your posts.
I only noticed when I went into my profile and noticed the obvious change.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1840 posts
672 upvotes
coolintheshade wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 1:00 pm
I have no reason to downvote your posts.
I only noticed when I went into my profile and noticed the obvious change.
It's ok, I'm just playing with you. I am glad they got rid of the down votes.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1840 posts
672 upvotes
pickles02 wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 12:59 pm
Nmclean, "approval" is a noun, not a verb. Now if the adjective "approved" had been used, as in "your application is pre-approved" I would agree with your analysis.

I think we are all agreed on this point.
His exact words, at my in person appointment, were "you have been pre-approved".
Deal Addict
Nov 25, 2014
1345 posts
555 upvotes
Newton Brook, ON
pickles02 wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 12:59 pm
Nmclean, "approval" is a noun, not a verb. Now if the adjective "approved" had been used, as in "your application is pre-approved" I would agree with your analysis.
Oh, you had to go there. Winking Face Yes, there is technically one case where it could mean "before the approval", and that would be when "pre-approval" itself is describing something else, e.g. "the pre-approval meeting" could be the meeting before the approval. But if we go back to the OP, the usage was "a pre-approval", which can only mean the act of pre-approving, and literally "pre-approved". Those are the standard usages.
You need someone with an umbrella not a fork
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1840 posts
672 upvotes
nmclean wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 1:27 pm
Oh, you had to go there. Winking Face Yes, there is technically one case where it could mean "before the approval", and that would be when "pre-approval" itself is describing something else, e.g. "the pre-approval meeting" could be the meeting before the approval. But if we go back to the OP, the usage was "a pre-approval", which can only mean the act of pre-approving, and literally "pre-approved". Those are the standard usages.
Actually, all of this is my fault.

In my OP, I actually used the expression "pre-qualified", and then mention the expression "pre-approval". Let me clarify the order of expressions that occurred. It went something like this.

Him: Based on your activity in your business account, I was able to pre-qualify you for an X$ limit on Momentum Visa Business card.
Me: You submitted an application?
Him: No, it came up on the computer screen that you were pre-approved for an X$ limit.
Me: Will there be a hard enquiry on my credit report if I accept this card? (Further explanations about my concern for my credit.)
Him: No, you were pre-approved.
Me: Ok, so long as there is no hard hit, I guess a business visa card will be occasionally useful, despite the low limit, however I am almost exclusively using my AMEX Business Platinum card.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he actually ran an application for me before I arrived to the appointment.
Penalty Box
User avatar
Mar 23, 2016
753 posts
202 upvotes
ksgill wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 7:19 am
Sarcasm aside, here is a 3 step process for your recovery:

1) Accept the fact that all banks are basterds who lie from time to time to generate more business, at your cost.

2) Stop banking with a shitty bank such as Scotia where you can't do anything without physically visiting a branch.

3) Pay your bills on time and your credit will take care of itself. Stop worrying about your credit score, you aren't getting a medal for having a perfect 900 or whatever it is.
And there is a post somewhere where people lament that Canadians get bad deals and bad service - it is consistently because of these attitudes I see (even on RFD) - don't worry about it, don't bother, just expect bad service

NO.

Complain, speak up, take your business elsewhere!
Last edited by springdays on Nov 9th, 2017 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Obama is the quintessence of all that is wrong with America today.. people looking at the superficial which is skin color and ignoring idiotic behavior." - the poster AndySixx 😲 :facepalm:
Penalty Box
User avatar
Mar 23, 2016
753 posts
202 upvotes
nmclean wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 8:41 am
No, that's a myth spread by people who don't understand grammar. This is true where "pre" precedes a noun, like pre-tax or pre-game. With verbs, "pre" is an adverb describing how it was done: in advance. Pre-baking is baking in advance, pre-ordering and pre-paying is ordering and paying in advance. Pre-approving is approving in advance.

What's really happening with fake pre-approvals is that you technically are pre-approved, but not for what you think (as the fine print will specify). But where OP has pointedly asked if he was pre-approved for the account and the representative assured him that yes, he was, there is no way around it: it was a lie. The rep is either deliberately lying, incompetent, or both
.
Sounds like Scotiabank!
"Obama is the quintessence of all that is wrong with America today.. people looking at the superficial which is skin color and ignoring idiotic behavior." - the poster AndySixx 😲 :facepalm:
Member
Mar 14, 2010
234 posts
92 upvotes
Toronto
nmclean wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 1:27 pm
Oh, you had to go there. Winking Face Yes, there is technically one case where it could mean "before the approval"....But if we go back to the OP, the usage was "a pre-approval", which can only mean the act of pre-approving, and literally "pre-approved". Those are the standard usages.

You went there first, lol!Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes.
I don't think there are standard, accepted usages. Different people ascribe different meanings to ambiguous crap like this. So bewiseman believed he had been offered a credit card that required no further approval by the bank. Several other posters indicate they concur with his interpretation. Others didn't. Certainly the bank wants people to believe they have been approved for the loan/credit card, although they haven't. Why? Because the bank wants you to "sell" you their card but only if you meet their credit standards. However, the bank cannot do a hard credit check on you without your permission. By dangling ambiguous bait: "You've been pre-approved" they get you to sign off on the credit check on a line buried in your application. It's a scurvy way to treat clients, imho.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1840 posts
672 upvotes
pickles02 wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 2:55 pm
It's a scurvy way to treat clients, imho.
Scurvy indeed, and very short sighted. Should I choose to push this to the extreme and take my business away, they've forfeited a nice little commission (Shocked and annoyed with myself for spending so much on transaction fees in their trading account. Upwards of 300 trades over the last year at $10/trade)

Anyhow, they stand to only lose on this card as I will only be using it for its 3% category. I have no other use for it. And now I feel absolutely morally justified for letting them lose on this card.
Member
Mar 14, 2010
234 posts
92 upvotes
Toronto
bewiseman wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 3:04 pm
Scurvy indeed, and very short sighted. Should I choose to push this to the extreme and take my business away, they've forfeited a nice little commission (Shocked and annoyed with myself for spending so much on transaction fees in their trading account. Upwards of 300 trades over the last year at $10/trade)

Anyhow, they stand to only lose on this card as I will only be using it for its 3% category. I have no other use for it. And now I feel absolutely morally justified for letting them lose on this card.


My advice is to write a formal letter (on paper, even!) to the branch manager and cc it to the bank's complaint division, complaining about the deceit used by the employee in claiming the card was pre-approved with no requirement for a credit check. Ask (rhetorically) if bank staff are trained to upsell using such tactics. Express your sense of having been wronged by the bank, through its customer rep, and ask what the bank will do to right the wrong.

I made a complaint about a rep many years ago who tried to sell my mutual funds and wouldn't take my several nos for an answer. All I wanted to do was renew a GIC quickly on my lunch hour and it took 45 minutes of repeating my request before he stopped his sales pitch and served me. I received a formal response within 3 weeks from an office higher than the branch manager. It informed me that, following my complaint, they had monitored this new employee and based on my complaint and their own observations , they decided he didn't meet expected standards. He was fired. They"upgraded" me and I was assigned the branch manager as my customer rep. The service I received was excellent and I got several perks not included in my bank account package.

I did not threaten to leave in the letter but, if I hadn't gotten some kind of apology/acknowledgment, I would have closed my accounts. Instead, the bank took my complaint seriously and acted on it. I am still with that bank and we both have benefited financially from the relationship. Since you are considering moving to a new bank, why not give this a try first. You may find that they reverse some bank fees charged to you as a good will gesture or assign you to a senior employees as your customer rep. Worth a try.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1840 posts
672 upvotes
pickles02 wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 3:33 pm
My advice is to write a formal letter .....
Great tips in your last post. Thanks!

Top