I'm slightly confused by many of the comments. I've been reading about the trades shortages for quite a while now. This shortage is in fact a made up illusion?
One Million Skilled Trades shortages by 2020!
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- Eragon [OP]
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- Sep 29, 2014
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- Toronto, ON
- Hydropwnics
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- Nov 12, 2013
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And you believe everything you read and hear?
"Between my salary and the office supplies I pilfer, I'm making 6 figures."
Medicine1T4 wrote: ↑oh that's just a username............... im in grade 12
- Mars2012
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- May 28, 2012
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- Saskatoon
There's not enough apprenticeship positions for the demand...and there is a demand for trades, which is why we're trying to poach them from other countries. Apprentice/journeyman ratio sometimes comes into effect - they can only take on as many apprentices as journeymen to supervise them. A lot of people are pushing the trades without seeing the full picture.
- fednad
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- Feb 8, 2013
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- Welland
justaskthescientician wrote: ↑A shortage - yes, but nowhere near 1 million people. Not sure where the writer got that figure.
I think he's talking about this ad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_3dpdC_Rr4
I don't know why he posted the Globe and Mail article though.
- turkey9000
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Nobody going into them? Try getting a starter electrician job in Toronto without an uncle who's a business owner or 3 generations of union members. It's like 20 applicants per open position.Eragon wrote: ↑http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/loo ... cle9117896
Framers, plumbers, electricians and carpenters can very easily make 100,000+ salaries. Yet, why is there such a huge shortage and why is nobody going into them? Are people that obsessed over going to university for a useless degree?
- turkey9000
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- turkey9000
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They will use these bs stats to import 3rd world tradespeople who don't mind living with their family in a 1 bedroom apartment and working for dirt wages. There is no shortage, it's all politics.frozenmelon wrote: ↑This. If there was actually a shortage, then prices (i.e., wages) would go up. It's simple supply and demand. There might be some delay, but they have been touting this bs for like 10 years at least.
- LandKing
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cheap labour is only useful if they need it and can use it without investing in time to train them.turkey9000 wrote: ↑It's vastly cheaper labour and they get significant tax benefits for taking on apprentices to offset the cost of training.
e.g. we get lots of applicants at work willing to work for free for experience..but we don't take them because it takes too much time/effort to train them for the amount of work and level of work we'd be comfortable giving them.
cheap/free labour is not a big incentive
- gelato69
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Don't believe the capitalist propaganda. There is no shortage of trades people. It should more appropriately be said that there is a shortage of trades people willing to work for minimum wage.
Many of us know people who completed their foundations level in school only to come out and find there is no one willing to accept apprentices. There is very good reason for that. In order to become a full journeyman you typically apprentice for 4 years but who gets to decide who gets an apprenticeship? Private sector employers.
Do you think private sector employers are just going to give out apprenticeships out of the goodness of their hearts? HELL NO! Why would a private sector employer train all these apprentices up to full journeymen only to have these journeymen compete with them for jobs and wages. The reality and what happens in the real world is that private sector employers practice nepotism when giving out apprenticeships. Again, you have to be very altruistic or stupid to train so many tradespeople who will only compete with you in the future.
Is the government going to do anything about this? No, they set it up this way in the first place. They need to redo the entire trades certification program. You should be able to do 2-3 years full time schooling with the school arranging for training, get certified, and start your own business. The current model of finding your own apprenticeship is broken.
Many of us know people who completed their foundations level in school only to come out and find there is no one willing to accept apprentices. There is very good reason for that. In order to become a full journeyman you typically apprentice for 4 years but who gets to decide who gets an apprenticeship? Private sector employers.
Do you think private sector employers are just going to give out apprenticeships out of the goodness of their hearts? HELL NO! Why would a private sector employer train all these apprentices up to full journeymen only to have these journeymen compete with them for jobs and wages. The reality and what happens in the real world is that private sector employers practice nepotism when giving out apprenticeships. Again, you have to be very altruistic or stupid to train so many tradespeople who will only compete with you in the future.
Is the government going to do anything about this? No, they set it up this way in the first place. They need to redo the entire trades certification program. You should be able to do 2-3 years full time schooling with the school arranging for training, get certified, and start your own business. The current model of finding your own apprenticeship is broken.
- Hydropwnics
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Wait, what? Never have I heard this lol; it goes against everything from human history to current capitalistic ideals.LandKing wrote: ↑cheap labour is only useful if they need it and can use it without investing in time to train them.
e.g. we get lots of applicants at work willing to work for free for experience..but we don't take them because it takes too much time/effort to train them for the amount of work and level of work we'd be comfortable giving them.
cheap/free labour is not a big incentive
"Between my salary and the office supplies I pilfer, I'm making 6 figures."
Medicine1T4 wrote: ↑oh that's just a username............... im in grade 12
- LandKing
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I don't know where you've been but cheap/free labour is not an incentive in majority of sectors/companies...think about it..why would it be? we aren't peasants toiling on fields anymore..we need employees with skill sets and abilities to do the tasks we need to be completed.Hydropwnics wrote: ↑Wait, what? Never have I heard this lol; it goes against everything from human history to current capitalistic ideals.
Why do you think companies don't want to hire candidates who will be wiling to work for free or very low wages? because they don't have the skills and experience required
where do you work that will take any volunteer? We don't even take coops or very few of them eventhough we don't have to pay them since it is of no benefit to us to spend time and resources on them when they won't be able to do any meaningful work and instead waste our time here?
- turkey9000
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It costs company money to fix newbies mistakes even to the point if he knew nothing and worker for free on a large construction project, the amount of hand holding required by expensive joirneymen and supervision and fixing his inevitable mistakes costs the company more then they save in free/cheap labour. That's the idea at least. Government does reimburse company training costs to some extent, and companies do need to think long term.. if their joirneymen are all going to retire in 5-10 years and its happening across all of industry and they aren't investing in training.. it's gonna be a sh*t show when everyone needs experienced guys and nobody can get them. It will be a highest bidding employer wins type scenario. Which IS capitalism but the government will bail them out by lowering credentials, brining in 3rd world workers, TFWs etc. They should get NO bail outs for not being forward thinking enough to predict the future.Hydropwnics wrote: ↑Wait, what? Never have I heard this lol; it goes against everything from human history to current capitalistic ideals.
- turkey9000
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The government can only do so much, there are excellent pre apprentice training programs in high schools and colleges, but all you want to do is poach skilled workers from other companies instead of developing your own training for long term success. You'll be begging for TFWs when the market sets skilled workers rates at more then your company wants to pay. I work for a large electrical contractor in AB and while everyone tries to poach to some extent we also recognize the value in training newbies to our standards. I can't count the amount of scabs who come in as 3rd years to journeymen from other sloppy companies who do things in scab ways. Imagine if 28% of the experienced workers in industry retired within 8 years of other what that would do to wages. They would go up, good businesses would adapt and pass those costs on to customers, bad ones would flop and countless others would cry how they can't get workers (at the price they want to pay).LandKing wrote: ↑I don't know where you've been but cheap/free labour is not an incentive in majority of sectors/companies...think about it..why would it be? we aren't peasants toiling on fields anymore..we need employees with skill sets and abilities to do the tasks we need to be completed.
Why do you think companies don't want to hire candidates who will be wiling to work for free or very low wages? because they don't have the skills and experience required
where do you work that will take any volunteer? We don't even take coops or very few of them eventhough we don't have to pay them since it is of no benefit to us to spend time and resources on them when they won't be able to do any meaningful work and instead waste our time here?
- apnayloags
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how do u actually get into this?
which school/college ? and how to get apprenticeship so u can make money to pay rent and food?
which school/college ? and how to get apprenticeship so u can make money to pay rent and food?
- golf_guy21
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Im looking to get into an apprenticeship as well and im 27transitguy1 wrote: ↑how do u actually get into this?
which school/college ? and how to get apprenticeship so u can make money to pay rent and food?
back after highschool I had a friend who took a course in London at a 'trade school' where he paid 10k to basically learn how to swing a hammer
he found an electrical company that was willing to take him on and now hes a full electrician working in hospitals etc making $35/h
this was 7-8 years ago and now its much different
I forget what I was reading today it was about cell phone policy at your work - one renovating company had a 18 year old who quit after 45 mins because he couldn't look at his phone
some apprenticeships with entry level careers the pay is so low its almost not worth it (ie being a construction labourer for 2-3 years for $12/h before they decide to sign you on as an apprentice)
if I was 17 and livng at home still then sure the $12/h for a couple years would be great and then school paid for etc - but being almost 30 rent and bills have to be paid for lol
- FirstGear
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- Nov 2, 2013
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I had a similar issue, one local outfit wanted to pay me $16/hour as a first year. By the time I went home and went through the numbers, and determined i could use savings and a second job to get through it, I could never get a hold of the hiring manager again...jordanr19871 wrote: ↑
some apprenticeships with entry level careers the pay is so low its almost not worth it (ie being a construction labourer for 2-3 years for $12/h before they decide to sign you on as an apprentice
if I was 17 and livng at home still then sure the $12/h for a couple years would be great and then school paid for etc - but being almost 30 rent and bills have to be paid for lol
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