Personal Finance

Ontario $14 impact on your tipping?

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 8th, 2018 10:04 am
Deal Fanatic
Feb 9, 2009
6075 posts
3320 upvotes
On top the waiters get tipped on tax (I bet alot of people include tax as part of their %), hence inflated their tips even more.

I would tip a flat $3-5 and thats that ( i know the tip also gets distributed among the front line staff and the cooks in the back)... if the waiter really really went above and beyond I would maybe include another few bucks (but these types of waiters are few and far between).

If a waiter serves 5-7 tables on average per hour, thats another $15-$35 or so dollars extra per hour.. more than enough for the type of work they do.
Deal Addict
Nov 21, 2013
2471 posts
729 upvotes
Sanyo wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 10:41 am
On top the waiters get tipped on tax (I bet alot of people include tax as part of their %), hence inflated their tips even more.
That's the reason why if you pay with the machine (Interac or credit card) do not add tip by pressing % button, it will calculate the tip on the total amount of the bill, wich include the taxes, use the $ button and put whatever amount you want to give as tip
Deal Addict
Nov 21, 2013
2471 posts
729 upvotes
fred125 wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 10:10 am
Well I guess what is "extra" depends on what you consider to be standard then. Taking your order, bringing your food/drinks, asking if you need anything else, and being relatively kind/nice seems like standard to me. Anything less is just poor service. Thus, most of the time when I eat out, I end up tipping the server despite not feeling like he/she did anything "extra"

When I worked as a lifeguard in high school, I would often have to go to the back room and get the pool toys out for the kids, and then also clean up after them. I don't know about you, but some would consider that "extra" ;)... I never got tipped.
Exactly, that's why tipping is so personnal... I give more if service is beyond my personal standards, less if beyond my personal standards
Member
Jan 5, 2018
207 posts
97 upvotes
DoorCrasher wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 2:37 pm
Exactly, that's why tipping is so personnal... I give more if service is beyond my personal standards, less if beyond my personal standards
Somewhat personal, but more cultural I'd say. My guess is that you would tip a routine, friendly, but nothing special type of server at the restaurant, but it would take a bus driver to do something incredible extraordinary for you to consider tipping. Why is this? Because our cultural norms dictate that you tip the server, but not the bus driver.
Deal Addict
Feb 27, 2015
1180 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto, ON
As of 2018, I am putting my foot down and taking a stance on tipping. Your employer pays your salery, not me. If you don't like the wage, find a better paying job. To tip someone for just doing their normal everyday duties is absurd. To tip someone for going above and beyond is different.

So I now tip 0, and (what I deem is an appropriate thank you amount) for doing something beyond normal duties.

Id love to see restaurants go to IPAD ordering and having food runners / busser. Less mistakes and you can argue you didn't order something or complain how you asked for it done. As you are the one submitting the order. This would revolutionize the industry that already how low margins.
Deal Addict
Mar 21, 2010
3625 posts
566 upvotes
Toronto
fred125 wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 2:41 pm
Somewhat personal, but more cultural I'd say. My guess is that you would tip a routine, friendly, but nothing special type of server at the restaurant, but it would take a bus driver to do something incredible extraordinary for you to consider tipping. Why is this? Because our cultural norms dictate that you tip the server, but not the bus driver.
Also because there's the concern that the server will remember you if you come back, whether they will just give you poorer/less prompt service or actually give you worse food (of course there's the rumour of spitting/putting things in food that may or may not happen). There's (hopefully) no concern that the next time the bus driver sees you, that he'll deliberately crash the bus...

It's a little selfish, but I do tend to tip in cases where it might be better for me next time if I do - so restaurants, barber, the concierge if I live in a building with one (in the form of a Christmas present or something similar), etc. I don't tip the bus driver, WalMart/supermarket cashier, McDonalds etc. - because (a) society doesn't expect me to, and (b) what's the downside? The bus driver isn't going to refuse to drive the bus next time. The supermarket cashier isn't going to close the checkout next time he or she sees me. The McDonalds person isn't going to give me extra food next time because I tipped the previous time, so what's the point? Tips are more or less a little bribe in my opinion, so I'm less likely to bribe people who can't actually affect the service they provide to me to any great extent.

Whoops: to answer the question, no, a raise in the minimum wage won't directly impact the amount I tip. If it causes prices to rise, so that eating out is more expensive, I'll probably still tip the same %, but either eat out less or eat at cheaper places.
Member
Jan 5, 2018
207 posts
97 upvotes
Manatus wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 3:08 pm
Also because there's the concern that the server will remember you if you come back, whether they will just give you poorer/less prompt service or actually give you worse food (of course there's the rumour of spitting/putting things in food that may or may not happen). There's (hopefully) no concern that the next time the bus driver sees you, that he'll deliberately crash the bus...

It's a little selfish, but I do tend to tip in cases where it might be better for me next time if I do - so restaurants, barber, the concierge if I live in a building with one (in the form of a Christmas present or something similar), etc. I don't tip the bus driver, WalMart/supermarket cashier, McDonalds etc. - because (a) society doesn't expect me to, and (b) what's the downside? The bus driver isn't going to refuse to drive the bus next time. The supermarket cashier isn't going to close the checkout next time he or she sees me. The McDonalds person isn't going to give me extra food next time because I tipped the previous time, so what's the point? Tips are more or less a little bribe in my opinion, so I'm less likely to bribe people who can't actually affect the service they provide to me to any great extent.
This is basically my thoughts as well and you've outlined it perfectly.

Edit: Although I will say I'm swayed more by social norms than the "bribe" factor. For example, when I take the taxi (rarely as I would mostly take Uber if needed), I still tip even though the "bribe" factor doesn't apply here.
Deal Addict
Feb 27, 2015
1180 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Ps. Think about it this way if you feel "bad" about not tipping.

As a server, come tax time the norm (depending on how your employer has recorded thing) to claim on what you made in tips over the year is 25-30%. That means servers are/have been getting 70-75% of their tips tax fee.

Math never lies so lets look at it this way:

2017 - Canadian Average Salary
$51,000 - $8,607 (tax) = $42,393 Net

The average salaried person works 2,080 (40 hrs x 52) hours a year.

As of 2018, Servers make $12.20/hr
12.20 x 2,080 = $25,376 - $2,828 (tax) = $22,548 Net

In 2019, Server will make $13.05/hr
13.05 x 2.080 = $27,144 - $3,183 (tax) = $23,961 Net

A server will typically cashout a shift with between $1000 - $3000 in sales PER SHIFT

So lets take an average of a 15% tip on these sales and an average shift of about $1500 in sales and a server gets an additional $225 cash PER SHIFT
Therefore 5 shifts a week X the same 52 weeks = 260 days of tips

260 Shifts X $225 Cash Tips = $58,500 Cash Tips A Year.

Of this, only 30% ($17,550) will be claimed and therefore taxed. The remainder will be taxfee.

This changes the tax rate:

As of 2018, Servers make $12.20/hr
12.20 x 2,080 = $25,376 + Claimed Tips ($17,550) = $42,926 - $6,377 (tax) = $36,549 (after Tax) + $40,950 (untaxed Tips) = 77,497 Net

... still think its unfair and you should feel bad about not tipping?

Granted this is a PERFECT year, but even at 50% of that, a server would be at $38,748.5
Member
Dec 23, 2015
376 posts
318 upvotes
ruchir wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 7:16 pm
BTW, Brookfield have been serving me, the shareholder, very well so don’t mind extra tip that you mentioned.
Wow, you are definitely the most baller guy on this forum to give a $5,385,958 tip to a guy who already makes a yearly salary of $795,334. I hope you are as generous when you go to a restaurant. The server would need to make ~ $175,140 in tips annually if the same salary/tip ratio were applied. I'm guessing the gratuity paid to Mr. Kingston is mandatory though and mostly unrelated to how well you are served as a shareholder. I wonder how happy you'll be after a %50 correction and his bonus increasing or remaining the same.
Cheap junk wastes resources and fills up landfills.
Member
Dec 23, 2015
376 posts
318 upvotes
JRGUINNESS wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 3:46 pm
Ps. Think about it this way if you feel "bad" about not tipping.

As a server, come tax time the norm (depending on how your employer has recorded thing) to claim on what you made in tips over the year is 25-30%. That means servers are/have been getting 70-75% of their tips tax fee.

Math never lies so lets look at it this way:

2017 - Canadian Average Salary
$51,000 - $8,607 (tax) = $42,393 Net

The average salaried person works 2,080 (40 hrs x 52) hours a year.

As of 2018, Servers make $12.20/hr
12.20 x 2,080 = $25,376 - $2,828 (tax) = $22,548 Net

In 2019, Server will make $13.05/hr
13.05 x 2.080 = $27,144 - $3,183 (tax) = $23,961 Net

A server will typically cashout a shift with between $1000 - $3000 in sales PER SHIFT

So lets take an average of a 15% tip on these sales and an average shift of about $1500 in sales and a server gets an additional $225 cash PER SHIFT
Therefore 5 shifts a week X the same 52 weeks = 260 days of tips

260 Shifts X $225 Cash Tips = $58,500 Cash Tips A Year.

Of this, only 30% ($17,550) will be claimed and therefore taxed. The remainder will be taxfee.

This changes the tax rate:

As of 2018, Servers make $12.20/hr
12.20 x 2,080 = $25,376 + Claimed Tips ($17,550) = $42,926 - $6,377 (tax) = $36,549 (after Tax) + $40,950 (untaxed Tips) = 77,497 Net

... still think its unfair and you should feel bad about not tipping?

Granted this is a PERFECT year, but even at 50% of that, a server would be at $38,748.5
I was curious about the numbers you posted so I did a quick search to see for myself to find out how much servers make. There does seem to be some discrepancy with the sources I found.
https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salaries/canad ... KO7,13.htm
https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Jo ... ourly_Rate
https://neuvoo.ca/salary/waiter/
https://ca.indeed.com/salaries/Fine-Din ... iod=yearly

Indeed.com does report in the fine dining category the upper end of the distribution making just shy of $50k /yr. Other sources report servers making considerably less than that.
Cheap junk wastes resources and fills up landfills.
Deal Addict
Mar 2, 2005
1998 posts
270 upvotes
zinger9 wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 12:45 pm
I strongly dislike tipping. I'd be OK with it if a person went way out of their way to do something special, but if they're just doing their regular job and expecting a tip then no.

Wife thinks people will spit in our food if we don't tip.

Therefore we rarely go to restaurants. Which is good because most of them suck and are way overpriced. I'd rather cook my own food.
Lot of people don't go to restaurants because they serve better, tastier or nicer quality food. Lot of the times, its a place, just to socialize, connect, bond with those who live/work with us or our loved ones.

In many cultures, food brings people together. So many people use it as an excuse to see those they care about.

You can hold your own belief and that's great. Everyone sees/does things differently. In the end, its about what you value more.
Deal Addict
Feb 27, 2015
1180 posts
490 upvotes
Toronto, ON
6060842 wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 4:44 pm
I was curious about the numbers you posted so I did a quick search to see for myself to find out how much servers make. There does seem to be some discrepancy with the sources I found.
https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salaries/canad ... KO7,13.htm
https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Jo ... ourly_Rate
https://neuvoo.ca/salary/waiter/
https://ca.indeed.com/salaries/Fine-Din ... iod=yearly

Indeed.com does report in the fine dining category the upper end of the distribution making just shy of $50k /yr. Other sources report servers making considerably less than that.
The biggest discrepancies are probably breakfast vs dinner servers and full-time vs part-time.

Also note that was based on a PERFECT year. No Vacation, sick days

However, I was a full server (3-4 shifts a week) and using those averages I was pretty damn close.
Jr. Member
Apr 14, 2017
182 posts
135 upvotes
Deal Grabber wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 4:59 pm
Lot of people don't go to restaurants because they serve better, tastier or nicer quality food. Lot of the times, its a place, just to socialize, connect, bond with those who live/work with us or our loved ones.
In many cultures, food brings people together. So many people use it as an excuse to see those they care about.
Arguably people can also socialize/connect/bond during the actual process of cooking a homemade meal. So unless you are terrible at cooking or have zero time for it, that's a viable option too.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jul 13, 2009
768 posts
88 upvotes
I normally tip 10% after tax. I'll probably switch to pre tax. Or just lower it to flat rate of $1 for every hour I sat there. Or less. Really depends if the restaurants increased prices or not.

I'm actually more annoyed at places that include tips in the bill. How can we get that reversed? Not going there isn't really an option since I still get dinged the first time.
Cell plans - anything more than $10/gb is a ripoff.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 8, 2010
1278 posts
91 upvotes
the tipping culture is extremely stupid and makes no sense at all.

but damn we do it anyways..

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