Shopping Discussion

[Ontario] Holiday Shopping Bylaw [in force January 1, 2018]

  • Last Updated:
  • Jan 2nd, 2018 11:32 pm
Deal Fanatic
Apr 20, 2011
7747 posts
2652 upvotes
ON
DaVibe wrote:
Dec 19th, 2017 10:29 pm
If these retail workers have to work all these holidays, why is it even labelled a holiday then?

Never in favour of taking workers holidays away. No support from me.

Shop on another day.
No one said retail workers have to work the holidays.
It is not exempting the public holiday for the employee. That is governed by the Employment Standards Act.
It is allowing the business to legally open on the holiday. The Retail Business Holidays Act.
The employer cannot legally make you work the day per ESA. You must agree to work, and accept the pay + day in lieu.
If you do not accept, you continue to receive your day off as usual. They cannot just schedule you to work that day, unless it is part of your employment contract already - in which case this thread has nothing do with you as it was already legal for the business to operate on that day.

tldr; two completely different laws for two completely different things
Deal Expert
Nov 16, 2004
15219 posts
2135 upvotes
Toronto
aqnd wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 6:56 pm
No one said retail workers have to work the holidays.
It is not exempting the public holiday for the employee. That is governed by the Employment Standards Act.
It is allowing the business to legally open on the holiday. The Retail Business Holidays Act.
The employer cannot legally make you work the day per ESA. You must agree to work, and accept the pay + day in lieu.
If you do not accept, you continue to receive your day off as usual. They cannot just schedule you to work that day, unless it is part of your employment contract already - in which case this thread has nothing do with you as it was already legal for the business to operate on that day.

tldr; two completely different laws for two completely different things
If all the employees want it off and no one (Or not enough) commit to working, how will the store remain open?

Workers will be forced to work. It's as simple as that. Unfortunately, not every work place has "volunteers" to work.

I can give you multiple examples where this has happened to friends and family already. It's a reality. You want it off? Yeah, so what.
RedFlagDeals addict
Deal Fanatic
Apr 20, 2011
7747 posts
2652 upvotes
ON
No one can be forced to work.
They can ask you to and you can say no.
If they try anything to penalize you for exercising your rights, you file a claim to the ministry of labour. That's the point of having the law to protect the worker in the first place.

If you cave and work because you think you "have to", that's on you for not holding to the rights provided to you.
If you're in such a situation to be asked that you should also re-evaluate your employment situation in the first place.
Because even McDonald's did not force us to work when I was a teenager. If they didn't get enough volunteers, they didn't open. Simple as that.
Deal Expert
Nov 16, 2004
15219 posts
2135 upvotes
Toronto
aqnd wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 9:46 pm
No one can be forced to work.
They can ask you to and you can say no.
If they try anything to penalize you for exercising your rights, you file a claim to the ministry of labour. That's the point of having the law to protect the worker in the first place.

If you cave and work because you think you "have to", that's on you for not holding to the rights provided to you.
If you're in such a situation to be asked that you should also re-evaluate your employment situation in the first place.
Because even McDonald's did not force us to work when I was a teenager. If they didn't get enough volunteers, they didn't open. Simple as that.
Okay, you can't be forced to work.
But what happens when there are 3 cashiers who can open and all 3 want it off? Then what?

The answer is, someone is written down to work and they discuss it with the employee, "Well if you work Christmas, we won't put you down for New Years"

I hope Ontario doesn't go down this path. It's better to remain closed and there's no maybes. Closed is closed, no one works.
RedFlagDeals addict
Deal Fanatic
Apr 20, 2011
7747 posts
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ON
Furthermore, do you honestly believe such employers that would violate the ESA would be holding the line at obeying the retail holidays act?
They'd already be open whether legal or not..
Deal Fanatic
Feb 7, 2017
7667 posts
5146 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
aqnd wrote:
Dec 20th, 2017 9:46 pm
No one can be forced to work.
They can ask you to and you can say no.
If they try anything to penalize you for exercising your rights, you file a claim to the ministry of labour. That's the point of having the law to protect the worker in the first place.

If you cave and work because you think you "have to", that's on you for not holding to the rights provided to you.
If you're in such a situation to be asked that you should also re-evaluate your employment situation in the first place.

Because even McDonald's did not force us to work when I was a teenager. If they didn't get enough volunteers, they didn't open. Simple as that.
Huh ?

Never heard of a McDonalds closing, when they were “supposed to be open” cause they did not have staff

I did time at McDs (college years) and so did my kids in their teens.

Volunteers for unfavourable shifts... were coheresed into working (ie Volun-TOLD)

Was exactly as described above by @DaVibe in Reply # 19
"Well if you work Christmas, we won't put you down for New Years"
Your choice was which shift you are going to “volunteer for” but you gotta work one of them... Dec 24th, 26th, 31st, or January 1st
(believe that ALL Cdn McDs are still closed on Christmas Day)

Arm twisting persuasion (your job or the door) at its best
Deal Fanatic
Apr 20, 2011
7747 posts
2652 upvotes
ON
I meant exactly what I said.
The McD's I worked at as a teenager was open some years on xmas day, other years it was not.
If they didn't have enough staff agree to work, they didn't open. If they did, they opened.
That continues to this day. Some years I drive by and see it open, other years it's not.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Nov 15, 2004
16371 posts
2408 upvotes
Toronto
aqnd wrote:
Dec 18th, 2017 8:50 pm
Being legally able to stay open and forcing people to work that day are two entirely separate topics.
No one's forcing you to work that day.
There are plenty of people that don't celebrate Christmas who would gladly take the extra cash for working what is just another Monday.

If you don't want to work it, don't. But I see no issue in letting those that want to, to do so.
Yep. I'm not Christian, but I celebrate Christmas whenever I feel like it. It's not really a big thing for me though, so if I had an opportunity to pick up a day of time and a half I'd jump at the chance. Nobody cares that movie theatres and restaurants are open on Christmas or the other holidays listed, so I don't understand why such a big stink is being made about retail. Do people want our companies to lose more business to foreign online sales platforms?
Could HAVE, not could OF. What does 'could of' even mean?

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