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Ontario Moving Forward With High-Speed Rail

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  • May 25th, 2017 4:05 pm
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Deal Fanatic
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Oct 23, 2003
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Its a great idea but i doubt it will have the # of people it requires to make this service break even. It'll end up as an UP v2.0 in its first 5 years or so. When's the last time someone from downtown Toronto needed to go to Windsor and come back on a near daily basis...or even weekly basis.

It'll be worth it in the long run as population growth doubles or triples, but it'll be a money loser in its first 5 to 10 years. There wont be as much people traffic as they will need to maintain the costs. Definitely not at first.

The good part is this will probably take 50 years to study and another 100 years to build, so by then, there should be plenty of people that demand is high.
Jr. Member
Jan 29, 2017
188 posts
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Buggy166 wrote:
Apr 27th, 2017 8:31 pm
The good part is this will probably take 50 years to study and another 100 years to build, so by then, there should be plenty of people that demand is high.
High Speed self driving cars will be roaming our roads before we see this.
Deal Addict
Jan 17, 2012
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Toronto
half the speed of the TGV and double the cost...no doubt.
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Dec 18, 2007
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uber_shnitz wrote:
Dec 5th, 2014 10:07 pm
To be honest, high speed rail doesn't really make sense for a country as spread out as Canada. There's not nearly as much demand as in Europe & Asia and the demand is better serviced by air travel than high speed rail IMO. If the demand isn't super high, you can bet economies of scale won't apply and this "high speed rail" might end up costing you just as much per ticket than an airfare travel (which is practically the cacse with Viarail currently for some destinations).
To be fair, you can get VIA deals. $40 to Ottawa or Montreal isn't a rip off by any means.
I do think Monteal and Toronto should be linked, but hey, it's an election years. Less votes east of Toronto vs. west.
Tornado F2 wrote:
Dec 5th, 2014 10:48 pm
What's the point in a high-speed connection to Detroit at this point? The place is bankrupt. It makes more sense to run a high-speed link to Buffalo. (By comparison Buffalo is booming). Niagara could do with better rail connections to TO too, so that's two birds with one stone.
+1
Doing it for Niagara makes more sense. Not to mention could do wonders for tourism.
Right now it's a pain to take the train to Niagara wine country if you don't have a car.
notfromqc wrote:
Apr 27th, 2017 7:30 pm
Will it be high speed rail or just another high speed rail study?
LOL
Good find!
Mike15 wrote:
Apr 27th, 2017 8:15 pm

From a federal perspective, that would be an intriguing infrastructure project. For an Ontario provincial-initiated project, you're only ever going to see intraprovincial regional rail, particularly in the most densely populated area, tying into desires to attract foreign investment. That's the niche that improving rail connection between GTA and K-W, London, fits into.

Similarly, Quebec's big infrastructure initiative is light rail in Montreal and around the shore. These are the kinds of projects that receive good feedback from residents and provide economic benefits. Replacing a Toronto-Montreal flight with a Toronto-Montreal high speed rail is an expensive undertaking without near the benefits. Leave that to Via.
It should have been announced as a partnership w/ Quebec and VIA, but that makes sense and it's an election year...
Heck even being able to get to Montreal in 4hrs would be a HUGE improvement. Doesn't have to be all out high speed.
peli33 wrote:
Apr 27th, 2017 9:38 pm
High Speed self driving cars will be roaming our roads before we see this.
That and the Leafs win the Cup.


Personally, I don't think it'll happen.
Sure it sounds nice but rail isn't a thing here sadly.
If it was announced as a partnership w/ VIA along the Windsor corridor (even if just to Toronto) it would be more likely IMO.

But the one thing everyone is forgetting about is how European companies will be able to bid on govt. contracts due to CETA. Might actually help in that a competent company is in charge.
I'm looking for a NZ Silver Fern Kiwi coin! :)
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Nov 24, 2013
3726 posts
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Kingston, ON
IceBlueShoes wrote:
Apr 27th, 2017 10:53 pm
But the one thing everyone is forgetting about is how European companies will be able to bid on govt. contracts due to CETA. Might actually help in that a competent company is in charge.
Fwiw, they're already here. European multinationals establish a Canadian subsidiary and/or partner with domestic construction forms to form a consortium for Canadian tenders.

Take Spanish ACS Group, which wholly owns Dragados / Dragados Canada, which is involved with this list of Light Rail & other projects,

http://www.dragados-canada.com/contentdetail.php?id=25

Ferrovial/Cintra, Spanish again, is heavily involved in the 407 East expansion consortium,

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ ... -extension
Deal Expert
Aug 26, 2001
15271 posts
381 upvotes
Oak Ridges, ON
(in response to someone suggesting a high-speed rail link between T.O. and Niagara Falls, and how it'd boost tourism):

There's already a GO Train between Toronto and Niagara Falls. It only runs in the spring/summer though, last I checked.
Deal Guru
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Apr 4, 2001
10062 posts
108 upvotes
Buggy166 wrote:
Apr 27th, 2017 8:31 pm
Its a great idea but i doubt it will have the # of people it requires to make this service break even. It'll end up as an UP v2.0 in its first 5 years or so. When's the last time someone from downtown Toronto needed to go to Windsor and come back on a near daily basis...or even weekly basis.

It'll be worth it in the long run as population growth doubles or triples, but it'll be a money loser in its first 5 to 10 years. There wont be as much people traffic as they will need to maintain the costs. Definitely not at first.

The good part is this will probably take 50 years to study and another 100 years to build, so by then, there should be plenty of people that demand is high.
I think this is increasingly about connecting the different developing regions of Ontario, precisely so that there's not a suburbs-to-Toronto bias.

i.e. people in Kitchener that work in Brampton, people in London that work in Kitchener, people in London that work in Windsor, etc.

This should be good news for anyone frustrated by the congestion in the GTA.

I do worry a bit about where everyone thinks the future growth to support all of this debt that's being taken on is going to come from. We've barely crawled out of the hole created in 2008 and are almost due for another dive by historical standards.

Mentioning UP Express v1.0 is relevant because that was something that had to be built regardless of the cost. It was just embarrassing that there's no rail link between a city and its airport. The above rail links will increasingly become a similar type of issue if the centres between Toronto and Windsor do develop as the government wants them to. So it looks very forward-thinking.

I just can't imagine a Conservative party building this, so you'd better hope any of the ones that get in between now and when this gets built don't kill it off to appease farmers and car jockeys in Toronto suburbs.
Deal Expert
Aug 26, 2001
15271 posts
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Oak Ridges, ON
I can't wait until we get a high-speed MAGLEV to Windsor! I've always wanted to visit Windsor for the weekend!
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Jan 6, 2011
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GTA
Wouldn't westbound makes more sense? i.e. Ottawa/Montreal
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Aug 26, 2001
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LongLiveRFD wrote:
May 1st, 2017 6:32 pm
Wouldn't westbound makes more sense? i.e. Ottawa/Montreal
What are you talking about, Windsor's nickname is the "Paris of Canada"...
Jr. Member
Apr 14, 2017
149 posts
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DT Calgary
konfusion666 wrote:
May 1st, 2017 6:41 pm
What are you talking about, Windsor's nickname is the "Paris of Canada"...
I always thought of Windsor as Canada's French Riviera, but each to his own.
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Dec 16, 2005
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LongLiveRFD wrote:
May 1st, 2017 6:32 pm
Wouldn't westbound makes more sense? i.e. Ottawa/Montreal
Isn't that eastbound?
Deal Addict
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Aug 23, 2006
2391 posts
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Money wasted and spent by Ontario will always be faster than any high speed rail in the world.
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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Oct 2, 2006
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sandeeS wrote:
May 2nd, 2017 10:00 am
Money wasted and spent by Ontario will always be faster than any high speed rail in the world.
Money "wasted" on Canadian workers building the infrastructure?
Money "wasted" on Canadian companies providing the raw building materials for said infrastructure?
Money "wasted" creating new jobs for Canadians that will provide the service and management?
Member
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May 22, 2016
488 posts
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Ontario
heymikey wrote:
May 3rd, 2017 4:47 am
Money "wasted" on Canadian workers building the infrastructure?
Money "wasted" on Canadian companies providing the raw building materials for said infrastructure?
Money "wasted" creating new jobs for Canadians that will provide the service and management?
Says the guy in London who doesn't pay taxes.
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