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Ontario Moving Forward With High-Speed Rail

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  • Jul 28th, 2017 9:44 am
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Nov 23, 2008
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heymikey wrote:
May 3rd, 2017 4:47 am
Money "wasted" on Canadian workers building the infrastructure?
Money "wasted" on Canadian companies providing the raw building materials for said infrastructure?
Money "wasted" creating new jobs for Canadians that will provide the service and management?
Yes, yes, and yes.

Do you know how many years it took for Toronto to extend its sheppard subway line by about 4 stations? over 10years!!!!
Do you know they just dole out the contracts to overpaid contracting companies that sit around in their fluorescent vests and smoke half the day?

No-one ever said "don't do it" but there's tremendous amounts of waste - tons of it. Ontario seems to be an expert in that.
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Apr 11, 2008
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SomeOtherDude wrote:
May 5th, 2017 3:55 am
Yes, yes, and yes.

Do you know how many years it took for Toronto to extend its sheppard subway line by about 4 stations? over 10years!!!!
Do you know they just dole out the contracts to overpaid contracting companies that sit around in their fluorescent vests and smoke half the day?

No-one ever said "don't do it" but there's tremendous amounts of waste - tons of it. Ontario seems to be an expert in that.
How else would you pay off your buddies and ensure a highly paid job in the private sector after you retire on a government pension?

To some people, throwing money out of a window is not a waste as long as it lands in Canada.
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Oct 2, 2006
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webshark wrote:
May 5th, 2017 2:10 am
Says the guy in London who doesn't pay taxes.
LOL. I still own some property back home in Calgary, which I rent out and which I pay income tax on. Face With Stuck-out Tongue And Tightly-closed Eyes
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Nov 23, 2008
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Archanfel wrote:
May 5th, 2017 8:04 am
How else would you pay off your buddies and ensure a highly paid job in the private sector after you retire on a government pension?

To some people, throwing money out of a window is not a waste as long as it lands in Canada.
Right. You said it perfectly.
"to some people" who benefit from it, throwing money out of a window is not a waste.

Its just that it IS a terrible waste to the rest of the 10 million or so working-stiff Ontario residents....
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Nov 15, 2004
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heymikey wrote:
May 3rd, 2017 4:47 am
Money "wasted" on Canadian workers building the infrastructure?
Money "wasted" on Canadian companies providing the raw building materials for said infrastructure?
Money "wasted" creating new jobs for Canadians that will provide the service and management?
It makes more economic sense to get an experienced high-speed rail company to come here and build it at a lower cost, then use the savings to fund other projects that would have a greater impact. Instead of paying a Canadian company to develop stuff from scratch that's existed in Europe and Asia for decades now they should just hire a Japanese or French company to come here and do it for a competitive bid. We'd get a better system with less flaws, it would be built quicker, and we wouldn't be wasting good money on economic inefficiency. The savings could build new hospitals or highways, or fund any number of programs that would employ a lot more Canadians.
Could HAVE, not could OF. What does 'could of' even mean?
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Aug 23, 2006
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heymikey wrote:
May 3rd, 2017 4:47 am
Money "wasted" on Canadian workers building the infrastructure?
Money "wasted" on Canadian companies providing the raw building materials for said infrastructure?
Money "wasted" creating new jobs for Canadians that will provide the service and management?
Psst. Money wasted and money well spent is totally different.
Didn't your mother teach Dont waste water, electricity or money?
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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Dec 24, 2002
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If we need HSR we should have one from Toronto to Buffalo and onto New York with a spur to Boston ..that covers the 3 most important cities in the North East ( sorry Montreal) . Maybe cut the journey time to 4 hrs ...imagine leaving TO at 8am and being in Manhatten for lunch time and then getting back to Toronto by end of day - huge boom for business and travellers
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Jan 6, 2011
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Should have proposed it during 07-09, create lots of local jobs and save on highways maintenance budgets.
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Apr 15, 2014
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Toronto, ON
I'm in China right now and got to take the high speed rail to one of the larger cities here, guangzhuo. It was pretty amazing to travel this way, hitting 295kph (not even close to top speed). First class was only $10 canadian! The regular seats were $7.

I think it's pathetic that they are planning a route from Toronto to Waterloo. What's the point, it isn't even that far from Toronto! Why not Ottawa & Montreal? I like the other poster's idea of New York City as a stop. Imagine a joint effort with the US to connect NY, Boston, Washington, Chicago, etc. I hate flying, not for fear but just because of how expensive, cumbersome and uncomfortable it is. I would gladly take high speed rail in-lieu of a plane.
Please respond
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Nov 24, 2013
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CardinalComb wrote:
May 19th, 2017 1:40 am
I'm in China right now and got to take the high speed rail to one of the larger cities here, guangzhuo. It was pretty amazing to travel this way, hitting 295kph (not even close to top speed). First class was only $10 canadian! The regular seats were $7.

I think it's pathetic that they are planning a route from Toronto to Waterloo. What's the point, it isn't even that far from Toronto! Why not Ottawa & Montreal? I like the other poster's idea of New York City as a stop. Imagine a joint effort with the US to connect NY, Boston, Washington, Chicago, etc. I hate flying, not for fear but just because of how expensive, cumbersome and uncomfortable it is. I would gladly take high speed rail in-lieu of a plane.
Route is Toronto-Windsor, in the following legs:
Union->Pearson (UPE route)
Pearson->Guelph
Guelph->K-W
K-W->London
London->Chatham
Chatham->Windsor

Windsor provides a potential US link to Detroit, though US rail service is weak out that way (Detroit goes to Chicago as a midwest hub, but the bulk of Amtrak service is in the northeast region, which is already connected to Canada via Montreal->Albany). Anyway, SWO is a big and growing part of the province and I figure all the legs between London and Toronto would get a good amount of use, especially at 250km/h service. If successful, they could then build similar heading east (Toronto->Peterborough->Ottawa, or Toronto->Belleville->Kingston->Brockville->Cornwall->Montreal), but that's understandably lower priority.
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Mike15 wrote:
May 19th, 2017 1:36 pm
Route is Toronto-Windsor, in the following legs:
Union->Pearson (UPE route)
Pearson->Guelph
Guelph->K-W
K-W->London
London->Chatham
Chatham->Windsor

Windsor provides a potential US link to Detroit, though US rail service is weak out that way (Detroit goes to Chicago as a midwest hub, but the bulk of Amtrak service is in the northeast region, which is already connected to Canada via Montreal->Albany). Anyway, SWO is a big and growing part of the province and I figure all the legs between London and Toronto would get a good amount of use, especially at 250km/h service. If successful, they could then build similar heading east (Toronto->Peterborough->Ottawa, or Toronto->Belleville->Kingston->Brockville->Cornwall->Montreal), but that's understandably lower priority.
Could this be the government's starvation tactics? so everyone wants it through their cities thus no one oppose the HSR idea?

Why would eastbound (Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal) be lower priority i.e. less productive investment than to already bankrupted auto industry?

I can't see how connecting Windsor is going to create as much value as considering the different split between cargo and people. Or Windsor just discovered new gold deposit underground?

HSR cargo is still concepts on paper, it'd be decades for Bombardier to build. Chinese HSR only lease out the passenger's luggage areas to couriers so someone's Taobao order could arrive same day. So Canada is going to beat China in HSR?
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LongLiveRFD wrote:
May 19th, 2017 2:47 pm
Could this be the government's starvation tactics? so everyone wants it through their cities thus no one oppose the HSR idea?

Why would eastbound (Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal) be lower priority i.e. less productive investment than to already bankrupted auto industry?

I can't see how connecting Windsor is going to create as much value as considering the different split between cargo and people. Or Windsor just discovered new gold deposit underground?

HSR cargo is still concepts on paper, it'd be decades for Bombardier to build. Chinese HSR only lease out the passenger's luggage areas to couriers so someone's Taobao order could arrive same day. So Canada is going to beat China in HSR?
This is the second time in this thread you've called Toronto->Montreal "westbound" and Toronto->Windsor "eastbound." I'm not sure where you're coming from. Do you look at maps upside down?

Wynne's in full reelection mode right now, so I'm sure defending Guelph, Kitchener-Centre, and London-North is on her mind. There is a case for the rail though. It'd be linking communities that are already economically integrated with the GTA to the GTA, and maybe even making a Guelph or K-W to Toronto commute realistic, fostering employment opportunities and economic development. This is linking through Pearson not just to take advantage of existing infrastructure, but because with this part of Ontario trying to attract international investment as a tech hub, HSR connection to Canada's busiest airport is extremely important.

Eastbound, Montreal and Ottawa are the 3rd and 6th busiest airports in Canada, respectively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... _in_Canada
They already have international connection, so replacing domestic travel to them with HSR is low priority and does nothing for provincial economic development. Westbound, a VC flying in from Silicon Valley to potentially invest in a K-W startup isn't flying into London (YXU) with its passenger volume 1% of YYZ's, nor are they flying into Waterloo's even-smaller YKF that currently only offers seasonal snowbird flights. They're flying into Pearson. Get them on a 21st century HSR from there to where they need to go.
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Apr 8, 2013
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Archanfel wrote:
May 5th, 2017 8:04 am
How else would you pay off your buddies and ensure a highly paid job in the private sector after you retire on a government pension?

To some people, throwing money out of a window is not a waste as long as it lands in Canada.
If we listened to conservatives like you, nothing will get done. We would still be riding on horses.

All you guys do is complain, complain, complain. Ontario would still be inhaling coal and getting ontarians sick if you guys had your way.

Do we want waste?. Of course not. But if the choice is between getting stuff done VS getting nothing done. I would take advancement of society any day.
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