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peanutz wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 4:05 pm
There is a related thread that was moved from OT to "Personal Finance":

cbc-trudeaus-chief-fundraiser-linked-ta ... e-2140013/

I would like to ask the mods to maybe merge these threads, back into OT? It's not really a "personal finance" issue...
Discussing politics outside of off-topic is against forum rules.

I moved the other thread back to OT.
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I am not sure this will not account to anything more than more question period hijinks...and Trudeau barfing out his pre-scripted response about how the Liberal party fights for middle-class Canadians by reducing taxes, etc. bla bla. This will go the way of the Panama papers; rich elites do not face consequences for this stuff, which is why the Liberals have been trying to milk small business owners and cut deductions here and there to make up the budget deficit.

Our Ethics watchdog is a chihuahua, and Liberal voters love Trudeau for the same reasons that they voted him in the first time - he's not a conservative. I doubt this will have any effect other than pissing off conservatives who already see how corrupt the Trudeau Liberals are, and have to have it slap them in the face again and again how the GTA and Montreal area own the federal vote in this country.
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CheapScotch wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:06 am
They did not discover the story themselves, it was fed to them by another news outlet. It was the same story for the Panama Papers.

https://www.thestar.com/news/paradise-p ... again.html
Dude are you really reaching? Just give credit where it's due, and move on.

We don't subscribe to the German newspapers, and the Toronto Star and CBC captures more Canadian eyes.
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This isn't necessarily a Liberal or Conservative issue. Both parties have done little to close these loopholes. Harper tried but it never seemed like something that they were willing to pay the political price for. With this now being public, there will be less of a political price for pushing for changes to close loopholes so maybe it'll finally get done. That being said, Trudeau may be benefitting personally from these loopholes and therefore we might have to wait for the next government to see any real changes.
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hugh_da_man wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 5:54 pm
This isn't necessarily a Liberal or Conservative issue. Both parties have done little to close these loopholes. Harper tried but it never seemed like something that they were willing to pay the political price for. With this now being public, there will be less of a political price for pushing for changes to close loopholes so maybe it'll finally get done. That being said, Trudeau may be benefitting personally from these loopholes and therefore we might have to wait for the next government to see any real changes.
That's the thing. *All* of these crooked politicians have probably been benefiting from it up until now. Or else they were receiving some type of pressure or compensation from the elites to not deal with it. This is the #1 social justice issue in our tax code, it's enormously unfair. The government can do a lot of good with all that tax that is currently not being paid by extremely wealthy people. It's disgusting.
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hi-tech wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 9:07 am
I'm so confused as to what exactly the issue is that's being relayed back to Trudeau.

His friend and someone who raised money for him before the election has his family fortune involved in a tax avoidance scheme?

How is this related to Trudeau? Is he supposed to personally manage his friend's wealth?
"Someone who raised money for him" is a nice way of describing what CBC called Trudeau's "chief fundraiser".

The problem is that legislation to close these tax haven loopholes has been blocked by Liberal appointees in the senate before. Trudeau being in power would allow him to appoint many more senators who could potentially block any attempt to close the loopholes for decades. That's why some rich guy would be interested in being Trudeau's "chief fundraiser" to ensure that Trudeau gets elected and their gravy train remains open.

In a way, yes, Trudeau does have a hand in managing his friend's wealth.
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peanutz wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 4:05 pm
There is a related thread that was moved from OT to "Personal Finance":

cbc-trudeaus-chief-fundraiser-linked-ta ... e-2140013/

I would like to ask the mods to maybe merge these threads, back into OT? It's not really a "personal finance" issue...
+1 These two threads must be merged.

What's the point of having two threads discussing the same topic simultaneously?
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SickBeast wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:01 pm
That's the thing. *All* of these crooked politicians have probably been benefiting from it up until now. Or else they were receiving some type of pressure or compensation from the elites to not deal with it. This is the #1 social justice issue in our tax code, it's enormously unfair. The government can do a lot of good with all that tax that is currently not being paid by extremely wealthy people. It's disgusting.
They're not all crooked. Read the links. The Conservatives tried to pass legislation in 2007 that was killed by the Liberal senate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradis ... -1.4384912
t was only in 2007, after Stephen Harper's Conservative government came to power, that a bill finally passed the House of Commons. The hallmark of that legislation was that all Canadian contributions to foreign trusts would now be taxed on their earnings.

"It was actually a time when all parties came together on one issue," former MP Wasylycia-Leis said. "And that was to find a way to stop the spread and growth of these tax havens."

But Davies Ward wasn't going to give up yet.

Together with other accounting and tax law firms, Davies Ward turned its attention to the Liberal-dominated Senate, which had agreed to hold its own hearings on the legislation.

And down in the Cayman Islands, as the Paradise Papers reveal, the offshore financial sector seemed to be following those events in Ottawa closely — aware of the last-ditch efforts in Canada to block the legislation.
This was crooked appointed senators using their power and influence to kill the will of the people and legislation passed by elected officials. That's the scandal here. This doesn't mean that *ALL* politicians are crooked.
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hugh_da_man wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:14 pm
They're not all crooked. Read the links. The Conservatives tried to pass legislation in 2007 that was killed by the Liberal senate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradis ... -1.4384912



This was crooked appointed senators using their power and influence to kill the will of the people and legislation passed by elected officials. That's the scandal here. This doesn't mean that *ALL* politicians are crooked.
Fair enough. Our governments haven't exactly made this a priority though. This should have been dealt with a very long time ago. For the senate to kibosh it like that it really makes me question their legitimacy.

I think this is a real opening for the NDP to come in and clean this mess right up. They will abolish the senate, implement proportional representation, and fix this crooked tax problem once and for all. I can live with whatever left wing nonsense they can come up with if they at least do those three things. I don't think the Liberals or the Conservatives will fix this once and for all the way the NDP would.
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Mods can you please merge this thread with my thread that I created yesterday? It was somehow moved into the finance forum, and then today it got moved back here.
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hugh_da_man wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:05 pm
"Someone who raised money for him" is a nice way of describing what CBC called Trudeau's "chief fundraiser".

The problem is that legislation to close these tax haven loopholes has been blocked by Liberal appointees in the senate before. Trudeau being in power would allow him to appoint many more senators who could potentially block any attempt to close the loopholes for decades. That's why some rich guy would be interested in being Trudeau's "chief fundraiser" to ensure that Trudeau gets elected and their gravy train remains open.

In a way, yes, Trudeau does have a hand in managing his friend's wealth.
Read the article though..."Chief fundraiser" is a ridiculous title for the CBC to use. There was a single instance mentioned before the election in 2015. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect Trudeau to personally control his friends and acquaintances personal finances.

No one is closing any tax loopholes, no country has been able to close them and no country ever will. The Queen is involved FFS.
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hi-tech wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:21 pm
Read the article though..."Chief fundraiser" is a ridiculous title for the CBC to use. There was a single instance mentioned before the election in 2015. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect Trudeau to personally control his friends and acquaintances personal finances.

No one is closing any tax loopholes, no country has been able to close them and no country ever will. The Queen is involved FFS.
I'm sorry but are you trolling or just not reading the articles on this? He's the revenue chair for the Liberal party. It's a board position that makes him the "chief fundraiser".
Bronfman, an heir to the Seagram family fortune and a close Trudeau family friend, was revenue chair of the Liberal Party.
https://www.liberal.ca/national-board-of-directors/

I'm sorry for my tone but if you're going to post lies don't expect me to be nice in my replies.
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SickBeast wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:01 pm
The government can do a lot of good with all that tax that is currently not being paid by extremely wealthy people. It's disgusting.
hugh_da_man wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:14 pm
This was crooked appointed senators using their power and influence to kill the will of the people and legislation passed by elected officials. That's the scandal here.
I agree with you both.

The defense that keeps popping up is "it's legal, it was legal." But the question becomes...should it all have been legal? There were at least a few attempts to increase transparency and question the ethics of what was legal back in the early 2000's...and much of the scrutiny was put off.

My criticism is that the poorer citizens (and non-citizens) are getting handouts left and right from the current Liberal government; the wealthy obviously have a ton of avenues to move around their wealth and continue to build more while minimizing tax exposure; it's the private-employed middle class that is getting increasingly targeted with taxes and fees with eroding workplace benefits/security. So until Trudeau Jr. puts his wealthy buddies into the tax crosshairs, leave the middle class alone or demand more efficiency in the public sector.

( @titaniumtux, thank you for moving the other thread back to OT.)
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peanutz wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 6:40 pm
I agree with you both.

The defense that keeps popping up is "it's legal, it was legal." But the question becomes...should it all have been legal? There were at least a few attempts to increase transparency and question the ethics of what was legal back in the early 2000's...and much of the scrutiny was put off.

My criticism is that the poorer citizens (and non-citizens) are getting handouts left and right from the current Liberal government; the wealthy obviously have a ton of avenues to move around their wealth and continue to build more while minimizing tax exposure; it's the private-employed middle class that is getting increasingly targeted with taxes and fees with eroding workplace benefits/security. So until Trudeau Jr. puts his wealthy buddies into the tax crosshairs, leave the middle class alone or demand more efficiency in the public sector.

( @titaniumtux, thank you for moving the other thread back to OT.)
Nice post. You are right. It would be interesting to see just how much money is being horded offshore with no taxes being paid on it. It could be to the extent that the middle class could pay no tax and all of this nonsense would make up for the shortfall. We really don't know. This could really be huge.
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MyNameWasTaken wrote:
Nov 6th, 2017 5:10 pm
Dude are you really reaching? Just give credit where it's due, and move on.

We don't subscribe to the German newspapers, and the Toronto Star and CBC captures more Canadian eyes.
It doesn't matter what newspapers you subscribe to. You are giving credit to The Star and CBC for running with a story which was dropped in their lap by another news outlet. Kind of like praising the financial acumen of someone who is a multi-millionaire because they won a lottery jackpot.

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