Shopping Discussion

PC Plus point system totally BS

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  • Nov 10th, 2017 9:34 am
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RolandCouch wrote:
Feb 14th, 2017 8:23 am
CIBC card for example has an annual fee as well as limits on the 4%
$25K limit & $80K on the other one. Forget which is which CIBC/Scotia Bank.

Even with the annual fee of $99 & $30 for an additional card.

Do the math on $25K expenditures over a year. on 1%, & 2% & 4%!!!!! earnings, deduct annual fee. You're still making substantially MORE than what PC Fin WE is giving. I did it last night. I was blown away. The only unknowns was if there was other points on that perhaps I wasn't accounting for? Are there? I'm always confused what total points I'm earning. It should be consolidated isn't it? On our PC Fin WE statement when it says "earned 62348 points" this month. That's the total right? You're not earning another set of points that don't display there?

25000 3% 750.00 <-PC Plus WE CashBack in PC Points.
25000 4% 1000.00 -$129 $871.00

Even with the annual fee, you're getting $121.00 MORE back. Looks like a no brainer.

I didn't study the 25K & 80K, but it's not total. I believe it's $25K PER category. SO $25k FOR 4% ITEMS, AND A SEPARATE $25K for the 2% items.
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bubble.tea wrote:
Feb 14th, 2017 8:54 am
Do the math on $25K expenditures over a year. on 1%, & 2% & 4%!!!!! earnings, deduct annual fee. You're still making substantially MORE than what PC Fin WE is giving. I did it last night. I was blown away.
25K on groceries a year? that's quite the appetite.
While you're not wrong that the potential cashback of the fee based 4% card is higher, it still totally depends on your spending situation.
I plugged a few numbers into my spreadsheet. Easier if you talk % instead of actual dollars.

PC. 3% at pc stores, 1% other.
Scotia. 4% at Gas and groceries. 2% pharmacy and recurring. 1% other

Lets ignore the "other" spending since it's the same for both. See some hypothetical numbers
Image

You can see that if you do 100% of your grocery shopping at PC stores then if you only spend $400/month on groceries the PC card actually gets you a bigger 2.23% return than the scotia at 1.88%.
Around $625/month is when the two cards break even.

But as your grocery shopping at PC stores goes down then the scotia card catches up. If around 72% of your groceries are PC then even at $400/month the two cards are even at 1.88%. and every dollar more gets a better return from Scotia.

If you spread all your grocery shopping around and only do 15% of your grocery shopping at PC stores then you see the scotia is always better.
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@Kevinck interesting read, thanks for doing the math / spreadsheet. Good to know that there are CCs here in the Cdn market that are beginning to push the envelope.

Personally, we stay away from CCs that have an annual fee... But are open to considering any that have a Fee Waived with Minimum Annual Spending.
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PointsHubby wrote:
Feb 14th, 2017 10:35 am
Personally, we stay away from CCs that have an annual fee... But are open to considering any that have a Fee Waived with Minimum Annual Spending.
Here's more math. with the flashy 4% of the scotia card you think it would be great. But look what happens when you add in the "other" spending and the cards that give a flat 2% on everything.
I chose the middle grocery level of 625 groceries, 100 gas, 50 pharmacies, 100 recurring payments, and added a column for other.

Image

I looked at my credit card bills and i am very much in the category where my "other" spending far outstrips my gas/groceries. And in that case a 2% card is best.

I tell fiends who are afraid of annual fee credit cards to do a few months of their credit card bills and break down the transactions to see how your categories of spending play out. It's entirely possible a fee based card will be better for you even with the fees.

And then there are the people who churn credit cards for the welcome bonuses. That's the real way to "work" the system. but i'm not that crazy..... yet.
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wow!

Now that's what I needed to do. See I am literally lost in that spreadsheet. Will need to digest later.

Thanks for this. Truly thank you.
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When I spoke to limits I was referring to the CIBC card. I believe they are lower.

Another reason I didn't like the Momentum ( had it before) is that I couldn't use it at No Frills where I buy lots of stuff.
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^, hmmmmI just looked over this stuff yesterday & day before. One is $25K the other is $80K I believe, nothing less.

Couldn't use it? Like...at all? It's a VISA? Why wouldn't they accept it? Policy wise or encryption/technical issue?
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bubble.tea wrote:
Feb 14th, 2017 3:31 pm
^, hmmmmI just looked over this stuff yesterday & day before. One is $25K the other is $80K I believe, nothing less.

Couldn't use it? Like...at all? It's a VISA? Why wouldn't they accept it? Policy wise or encryption/technical issue?
AFAIK, No Frills do not accept Visas.
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^ ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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Josesundae wrote:
Mar 1st, 2017 9:43 am
It can be BS sometimes, but surprisingly it works. The points system just gets people purchasing more and more. Good for the business, might not be to best for customers trying to actually save. Here are some pros and cons:

https://www.sweettoothrewards.com/blog/ ... s-pc-plus/
I don't agree with this take. This is written from the perspective from someone that wants to earn without playing the game, and I am sorry, you have to become engaged and make an effort.

You need to log in and load your offers every week so that you are forced to view what they are. You may add things to your shopping list because of your offers. Forcing people to load offers forces them to check in with PC+ weekly. It is a much better approach than letting the customer not think about the program at all, and earn by total accident, and not even have weekly contact with the program.

The author claims that you cannot get points if you have loaded offers but do not have a card, and this is (in a practical sense) not true. You can submit a points inquiry. Officially, there is no answer for that Q in the PC+ faqs.

The author also suggests that there should be a minimum bonus just for showing up, and suggests $.10. Sorry but that is not enough incentive for me to shop under a gamified program without even looking at my offers. I suggest that if he got in the habit of looking at his offers, he'd do much better.

People who don't know how to play the game and are losing at it shouldn't offer guidance on how to win at it.
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lecale wrote:
Mar 1st, 2017 3:47 pm
I don't agree with this take. This is written from the perspective from someone that wants to earn without playing the game, and I am sorry, you have to become engaged and make an effort.

You need to log in and load your offers every week so that you are forced to view what they are. You may add things to your shopping list because of your offers. Forcing people to load offers forces them to check in with PC+ weekly. It is a much better approach than letting the customer not think about the program at all, and earn by total accident, and not even have weekly contact with the program.

The author claims that you cannot get points if you have loaded offers but do not have a card, and this is (in a practical sense) not true. You can submit a points inquiry. Officially, there is no answer for that Q in the PC+ faqs.

The author also suggests that there should be a minimum bonus just for showing up, and suggests $.10. Sorry but that is not enough incentive for me to shop under a gamified program without even looking at my offers. I suggest that if he got in the habit of looking at his offers, he'd do much better.

People who don't know how to play the game and are losing at it shouldn't offer guidance on how to win at it.
I see what you mean, but to be completely honest, customers can't win the game. The whole point of getting that 10 cents for "showing up" is an incentive to expose themselves and potential spend money on PC. The purpose of forcing the viewer into the app weekly creates a switching cost so they stay on the brand and be reminded of the "perks" of being part of PC.

The perspective of this piece is written for Businesses who wishes to grow their business by increasing their customer loyalty base and their retention of customers. Loyalty Programs like PC+ allow businesses to see loyalty program works. Also, in terms of redemption rates, the more points people redeem, the more engaged they are in your brand and the MORE they will spend on a business.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're playing the game well or not at all. What matters is that you're in it, and it will slowly make you more loyal to the brand. Obviously businesses want to have more engaged/loyal customers so they will guide customers to "win".
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bubble.tea wrote:
Feb 14th, 2017 4:20 pm
^ ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Here's my approx. breakdown:

PCF WE MC (3%): $500 monthly = $180 annual cashback
Tangerine MC (2% recurring bills/restaurants/home improvement): $500 monthly = $120 annual cashback
Fido MC (1.5%): $500 monthly = $90 annual cashback

$390 CB with no annual fee, on 18K spend = 2.17% overall CB
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Josesundae wrote:
Mar 1st, 2017 5:04 pm
I see what you mean, but to be completely honest, customers can't win the game.
Sure they can, I am getting a 15% bonus on all of my shopping at Zehrs/No Frills so far this year. I am getting 35% at Shoppers. Getting 2-3% as you would with a credit card is losing. Getting 5-10X that or more by watching your offers is definitely winning.
Josesundae wrote:
Mar 1st, 2017 5:04 pm
The whole point of getting that 10 cents for "showing up" is an incentive to expose themselves and potential spend money on PC. The purpose of forcing the viewer into the app weekly creates a switching cost so they stay on the brand and be reminded of the "perks" of being part of PC.
$.10 on $100 groceries is not a meaningful amount to get someone to change stores or even use a card at the right store, I'm sorry.

People view the app only if they are avid game players who are willing to alter their shopping patterns in order to earn more rewards. The point of the app is gamification - create a game at which the customer can win or lose, with new offers every week that they must chase after.
Josesundae wrote:
Mar 1st, 2017 5:04 pm
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're playing the game well or not at all. What matters is that you're in it, and it will slowly make you more loyal to the brand. Obviously businesses want to have more engaged/loyal customers so they will guide customers to "win".
Sure it matters if you are not playing the game at all - do you think you will "accidentally" earn hundreds of dollars that way? You'll honestly probably earn nothing at all.

What matters is that you play, you load offers, review them, plan to use, save or delete them. If you don't want to play the game but want a guaranteed return, get a credit card. PC Plus is not a program for passive people (the losers. Because there are always losers.)

The problem with the author's article is that he expects to earn totally passively. That is not the point. There is a credit card for that. Don't confuse the two programs. PC Plus is for fickle active shoppers - SAHM's and retirees and people attracted to coupons that scour the flyers and offers and make a plan every week. It is not for people who never looked for a grocery deal in their life to easily make money. Passive people will never do as well as people with a plan...because if you don't have a plan, you plan to fail.

My take anyway.

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