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People crushed to death by donation boxes

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  • Jan 16th, 2019 3:06 am
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eager beaver wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 6:28 am
These bins need to be made safer. Large for-profit companies like Value Village stock their stores for virtually nothing with merchandise from these bins. Yes, they do donate a tiny percentage to charity, but they milk that pittance to the max masquerading as somehow being a charity themselves.
Value Village at least employs people.
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lennyandcarl wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 6:34 pm
Arresting people or fining people doesn't do any good when they're homeless and broke and can't pay.

Littering & Dumping fines make sense if the person can afford to pay them and in a lot of cases people would be able to. Most (maybe all?) of the people who have died in these bins are homeless or addicts (or both).

I'm not sure if the help button will be any good since this often happens in the middle of the night with nobody around.
The thing is... the donation boxes arent the problem. Poverty, mental illness, and drug addiction is.

If it wasnt the boxes... they’d be frozen to death in a dumpster. Or frozen to death in a bus shelter.
That kinda thing.

Too much emphasis on the boxes... but i guess it makes for a “good” news story...
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Personally I don't get people saying that these people deserve it because they're thieves - to me at least, these aren't really 'donation bins', they're just trash cans that make me feel better. When I drop a bunch of clothes in, it's not like I'm writing a $50 cheque to whatever organization it is, most of the time I don't even know what organization it is, or really care. I just don't want my usable stuff to go into a landfill, I ideally want it to go to someone else, anyone else, who's going to use it. I would gladly give all the clothes to the person rummaging in the bins; there's just no mechanism for doing that.
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UrbanPoet wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 7:19 pm
The thing is... the donation boxes arent the problem. Poverty, mental illness, and drug addiction is.

If it wasnt the boxes... they’d be frozen to death in a dumpster. Or frozen to death in a bus shelter.
That kinda thing.

Too much emphasis on the boxes... but i guess it makes for a “good” news story...
Agreed. But a $50 fine (or for that matter a $500 fine) isn't going to deter a meth addict from scavenging for things to sell to get their next fix. I also don't think most of them are after shelter - there is easier shelter to be found - at least here on the west coast where all you need is a tent.
Manatus wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 7:32 pm
Personally I don't get people saying that these people deserve it because they're thieves - to me at least, these aren't really 'donation bins', they're just trash cans that make me feel better. When I drop a bunch of clothes in, it's not like I'm writing a $50 cheque to whatever organization it is, most of the time I don't even know what organization it is, or really care. I just don't want my usable stuff to go into a landfill, I ideally want it to go to someone else, anyone else, who's going to use it. I would gladly give all the clothes to the person rummaging in the bins; there's just no mechanism for doing that.
Then research a particular charity and donate there. I take all my stuff to a particular local charity that we like and actually filters their donations and tells people to take their junk to the dump if it actually belongs there!
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lennyandcarl wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 7:45 pm
Then research a particular charity and donate there. I take all my stuff to a particular local charity that we like and actually filters their donations and tells people to take their junk to the dump if it actually belongs there!
Well, okay, and maybe I should. But to the point of people taking things from donation boxes - I really don't mind if someone steals the things I put in the donation bin, as long as they're going to use it, since my main goal was never "I want to do a good deed by giving this charity my stuff", it was "I need to get this stuff out of my house without feeling bad that I'm being wasteful". So I don't look down on people who do so, and if charities (or for-profit organizations) feel aggrieved and want to take action to protect their loot, my reaction is - well, it was never really yours to begin with. You just happened to own the nearest, most convenient open hole I could shove it that wasn't a trash can. If it wasn't for the fact that people would be irresponsible and leave trash strewn everywhere, I'd rather than all clothes etc. bins be just left open.
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The CBC had a good article a few years ago that lays out the elements of clothing donations - and what a big business it is
The business of collecting donated clothes, selling them in local thrift stores and shipping them overseas has become so lucrative it has created a cut-throat turf war in Ontario.
One man in the industry said competition for routes in the past two to three years has become "violent."
"People are getting beat up because these things work as a territory.… We have orders from the company, like don’t let competition around you," said the man, who spoke to CBC News on condition he not be identified.

He said the violence has escalated since people have found out there’s lots of money involved. "And now they are fighting with each other.… people got beat up, the bins were stolen, the bins were burned out."
In 2010, Canadian exports of worn clothes were valued at $174 million. Ontario's share of that market is over $132 million. Most of the clothes went to African countries, India and Pakistan.

Lindsey Huculiak of Toronto was outraged when she learned that clothes she was putting in a charity bin in Mississauga where she works were likely helping to fund a very profitable private business.
"This bin is here and it's leading me to believe that it is part of a charitable organization. It almost even says so on it. So when I find out that it doesn't go to charity, I’m just flabbergasted that this can happen in my community."
Independent drivers are paid by collection companies to pick up the donations. The collection companies pay the drivers by the pound and in turn sell the clothes at a profit to bulk buyers, who then often resell it to for-profit thrift stores and buyers in the Third World.
Charities do get some of the money but it is often a flat fee. CBC found the name of one legitimate charity run by the Ontario Provincial Police on a bin, but the OPP said it was no longer associated with the bins.
Some signs suggest the charity is getting all the money, but when the CBC called the charity named on such a bin, the charity couldn’t verify this.
Other bins don't actually name a charity — but imply a connection by saying "in support of local charities."
A recent court case gave the public a close-up view of some of the money being made from used clothes collected from parking lot or roadside bins.
A man who owns one of the bin companies said in court that one of his route supervisors made $12,000 a week, while a driver can make $12,000 a month.
The man who spoke to the CBC anonymously said that a driver can make "maybe $200,000 a year."
The court case was about one competitor in the business accusing another man of pointing a gun at him. Though the man was acquitted, the ensuing trial forced one of the largest companies in the bin collection business to open its books.
The judge in the case expressed surprise at the "very small portion of the revenue generated from the business being given to certain charities" while the business "produced extraordinary revenue and income for those involved."

A spokesman for the Salvation Army, which collects the clothes from its own bins and returns all the profit to the Salvation Army, says their bins are a "lifeline for the donations that people provide our thrift stores."
Pastor Dave Kennedy said he has seen a decline in donations in recent months in Orangeville.
"There's only so many bags of clothes that a community of our size is going to generate in a given week."
Kennedy was surprised when he learned of the tens of millions of dollars being made in Canada in the used-clothing business.
"I'm staggered. Never, never considered that there’d be that kind of money involved in the surplus recycling of clothing. It's amazing."

The private businesses have had another effect on charities like the Salvation Army, Kennedy said. His thrift store spends a significant amount of money – anywhere from $12,000 to $14,000 a year – in dumping fees to dispose of unacceptable goods, some of which come from the for-profit drivers, he said.
"They will accumulate garbage on their truck that they don't want to take back to their depot, and they have made a habit of coming in and dropping it off here."
Charity Intelligence will help locate charities if they are only identified by their nine-digit charitable registration number on a bin. Charities are also listed on the Canada Revenue Agency website

Bri Trypuc, head of donor services of Charity Intelligence in Toronto, said that even when you find that the name on a bin is that of a legal charity, you should still call the organization to find out what they need and what clothing they will accept.

"When you give direct to an organization, chances are that organization will use the donation for good, on front-line programs, and for their clients as opposed to being shipped overseas and sold for a business benefit."
Toronto's Hospital for Sick Children just announced it will be lending its name to new clothing bins. The vice-president of the SickKids Foundation, Adrian Horwood, said the bins will be clearly marked as being operated by a private company, DYN Exports Inc., and that 41 per cent of the proceeds will go to SickKids.
Kennedy said that despite the bin wars, he is thankful that people are very generous.
"There are a lot of good things that are happening in our community and communities like ours because people donate used clothing."
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Manatus wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 7:32 pm
Personally I don't get people saying that these people deserve it because they're thieves - to me at least, these aren't really 'donation bins', they're just trash cans that make me feel better. When I drop a bunch of clothes in, it's not like I'm writing a $50 cheque to whatever organization it is, most of the time I don't even know what organization it is, or really care. I just don't want my usable stuff to go into a landfill, I ideally want it to go to someone else, anyone else, who's going to use it. I would gladly give all the clothes to the person rummaging in the bins; there's just no mechanism for doing that.
Considering how Toronto charges people to pick up their garbage in surprised not more people use these to unload their garbage. Everything seems to cost money now.
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This reminds me I have a $15 Tim Hortons gift card that someone gave me that I have no use for.

Today I will make good use of it being the coldest day of the year! I saw a lady yesterday that had no shoes...well I'm not sure because her jeans were about 5 inches longer than her feet, hopefully I will run into her again!

Homeless people are cool. I've seen them give money to the homeless when they need it themselves
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I'm guessing all these donated clothes end up in markets of poor countries to be sold for profit....its a big business and quite lucrative.
So thats why they don't want people digging in there
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ConsoleWatcher wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 12:50 am
I call shenanigans. You want us to believe that a homeless person had the money to buy an airline ticket, but no money to buy even a simple bag to carry his stuff? Also, I highly doubt that anyone is allowed to fly using a "garbage bag" as carry-luggage.
I did carry on from a flight Sacramento to Vegas once. The bag was big and clear and had a lot of junk in it. My truck broke down, I hitchhiked to Sacramento from Yreka California, then got the flight. I was covered in sweat and had dirty clothes on from walking the last two miles in the heat.

Then I almost got arrested because I had a throwing star in my bag I didn't notice (was in a case). The sheriff came down but decided to let me go on as they believed my story (had license plates in bag from truck I sold to a mechanic).

They held the plane for me and everyone was staring at me as I walked on.

I wasn't homeless, maybe your friend wasn't either. Sometimes crazy things happen to people and all they have is dirty clothes and a trash bag for the time being

Got a letter a year later saying th TFSA is dojng an investigation and I might be banned from US airports, nothing ever came of it though
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Mitts87 wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 8:11 pm
I did carry on from a flight Sacramento to Vegas once. The bag was big and clear and had a lot of junk in it. My truck broke down, I hitchhiked to Sacramento from Yreka California, then got the flight. I was covered in sweat and had dirty clothes on from walking the last two miles in the heat.

Then I almost got arrested because I had a throwing star in my bag I didn't notice (was in a case). The sheriff came down but decided to let me go on as they believed my story (had license plates in bag from truck I sold to a mechanic).

They held the plane for me and everyone was staring at me as I walked on.

I wasn't homeless, maybe your friend wasn't either. Sometimes crazy things happen to people and all they have is dirty clothes and a trash bag for the time being

Got a letter a year later saying th TFSA is dojng an investigation and I might be banned from US airports, nothing ever came of it though
Another possibility... someone with brain degeneration due to an accident, medical condition, or old age. It can make people who were other wise very normal, start to do straaaange things. Like not shower. Taking garbage bags full of clothes.
Its unlikeley a “homeless” person.
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UrbanPoet wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 12:16 pm
Its alarming. But its not the donation boxes fault.
Its more like poverties fault. These people are desperate to find either a warm place to sleep. Or free clothing.
Hey poet don't take this the wrong way but you seem to always take the proletariat side of things and that's commendable burn if someone dropped a dead raccoon next to me the last thing on myind is what mental issue this guy has that lead them to this behavior but more importantly I don't want to get a disease and bring it home to a loved one.

Right now people at work are getting sick from the seasonal flu and who knows what else it is mutating into. I don't want to deal with that shit. If you're willing to be honest at all you would agree.
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Supercooled wrote:
Jan 13th, 2019 1:22 am
Hey poet don't take this the wrong way but you seem to always take the proletariat side of things and that's commendable burn if someone dropped a dead raccoon next to me the last thing on myind is what mental issue this guy has that lead them to this behavior but more importantly I don't want to get a disease and bring it home to a loved one.

Right now people at work are getting sick from the seasonal flu and who knows what else it is mutating into. I don't want to deal with that shit. If you're willing to be honest at all you would agree.
Of course thats not the first thing i would think of.
I get disturbed by homeless and the mentally ill all the time. You think i go hug it out with some homeless people. Of course not.

we got three choices.

1. Kill and jail all these “vagrants”. Which is a gross violation of human rights and justice. But it would be the easiest thing to do. And keep all us “normals” happy.

2. Throw money at them. Which of course also doesnt work.

3. Pick away at these problems slowly, steadily, sustainably, and over the long term. This is through various social programs, improvements to our economy, our justice system and education system.

What we currently do is a half assed version of all 3.

But #3 is your best bet if you ever want a chance of erradicating the problem or minimizing it.
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You forgot option 4 (a hallmark and privilege of the wealthy): move out of the area and have someone else deal with it
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apnayloags wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 3:10 pm
I'm guessing all these donated clothes end up in markets of poor countries to be sold for profit....its a big business and quite lucrative.
So thats why they don't want people digging in there
That is how it usually works.

I am sure people here got a letter about donating clothes with brand names.

No one is going to pay to ship tons and tons of used clothing for free.
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