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PEx manifold shut offs

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  • Mar 14th, 2019 12:27 pm
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[OP]
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Nov 28, 2016
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PEx manifold shut offs

Looking today and noticed 3 lines from the cold side of my Pex manifold do not have shut offs, these are the toilets. But the toilets do have shut offs at them

Looking more, every sink does not have a shut off, but instead at the manifold. The fridge has its own shut off at the fridge. Im not sure about the dishwasher

1. Should I have a shut off at the manifold for the 3 toilet lines as well? Looking at code its not needed, but don't know why when building they just didn't do these three like the rest. if a toilet line went at the toilet, the only way to shut that off would be the main line then
2. Do I need shut offs at the sinks if I have a shut off at the manifold. That would be five sinks, 3 bathrooms, a kitchen and a laundry room
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Deal Addict
Jan 19, 2011
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I am fussy, so I would have all lines set up with shutoffs at the manifold, and all fixtures with their own shutoffs.

I re plumbed my old Victorian house this way, using an atlas manifold with built in shutoffs, and shutoffs at each fixture, except walk in shower where plumbing is inaccessible.
"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is."
Just a guy who dabbles in lots of stuff learning along the way. I do have opinions, and readily share them!
Temp. Banned
Dec 19, 2009
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The Ontario Building Code | Water Closets

7.6.1.5. water Closets

(1) Every water closet shall be provided with a shut-off valve on its water supply pipe.
Temp. Banned
Dec 19, 2009
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Jerico wrote:
Feb 10th, 2019 4:01 am
OP location : Saskatoon
National Plumbing Code of Canada 1995

6.1.3. Shut-off Valves
4) Every water closet shall be provided with a shut-off valve on its water supply pipe.
Deal Addict
Jan 19, 2011
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Building code requires one shutoff per fixture, without specification of location.

a homeowner is able to determine for themselves if the added cost for installing two shutoffs per fixture is reasonable for the convenience provided.

I went the manifold with all shutoff route, plus shutoffs at each fixture as I only justified a six port manifold, so some lines serve two, perhaps three fixtures.

It is convenient if I want to isolate a particular fixture or fixtures, I can choose to do so either in the basement, or at the fixture.

Not that I am a huge fan of Mike Holmes, but he is often quoted as promoting the benefits of exceeding the minimum code requirements.
"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is."
Just a guy who dabbles in lots of stuff learning along the way. I do have opinions, and readily share them!
Deal Addict
Jan 28, 2007
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SW Ontario
Building codes are a MINIMUM requirement, that doesn't need to be practical or logical, just needs to be safe.

I always add my own additional shutoffs on the main trunk lines to be able to turn off an entire section.
I'd rather be outdoors camping, kayaking, and mountain biking ...
[OP]
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Jojo_Madman wrote:
Feb 10th, 2019 11:45 am
Building codes are a MINIMUM requirement, that doesn't need to be practical or logical, just needs to be safe.

I always add my own additional shutoffs on the main trunk lines to be able to turn off an entire section.
I probably will eventually. Its like anything, why use 4 screws when 3 will work. Maximize profit, typical home builders, and let the owners worry about the cut backs
[OP]
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fieldhousehandyman wrote:
Feb 10th, 2019 8:22 am
Building code requires one shutoff per fixture, without specification of location.

a homeowner is able to determine for themselves if the added cost for installing two shutoffs per fixture is reasonable for the convenience provided.

I went the manifold with all shutoff route, plus shutoffs at each fixture as I only justified a six port manifold, so some lines serve two, perhaps three fixtures.

It is convenient if I want to isolate a particular fixture or fixtures, I can choose to do so either in the basement, or at the fixture.

Not that I am a huge fan of Mike Holmes, but he is often quoted as promoting the benefits of exceeding the minimum code requirements.
At least at my manifold, separated hot and cold, every fixture has its own shut off at least. So I don't have to shut off more than one thing at a time. Only thing that doesn't have its own line is the fridge water, but has a shut off at the fridge. So it must be T-ed off some line close to the kitchen. I cant see or tell where it is due to the finished ceiling, I hope its not a terrible connection that will fail. Unfinished ceiling and access is one thing, but not even nowing the location the only way you know of a failure would be when you see water damage
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Are you absolutely 100% without a doubt sure about this statement?
fieldhousehandyman wrote:
Feb 10th, 2019 8:22 am
Building code requires one shutoff per fixture, without specification of location.
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
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Toronto
Every shutoff valve means 2 more joints and a valve - all points of failure.

If the main house valve is close to the manifold, there is no point in having redundant shutoffs for something like a toilet.

If you have a failure, shut the house down for the 10 minutes it would take to put a PEX shutoff valve or plug after the manifold to that one fixture, if getting the rest of the plumbing up and running while you sort out the one failure is critical.

I'd rather do that and have fewer opportunities for leaks than have multiple shutoff valves on single runs. Statistically leaks will be rare.

The shutoff valves are there to protect you from failures of the downstream fixtures - those cheap junky washing machine valves, fridges, plastic bits in the tank of the toilet, Home Depot faucets etc. This is why they are placed close to those fixtures. So when you see your toilet leaking all over the place you can quickly shut it off without having to run to the basement.

The main house shutoff valve is there to protect you from failures in the plumbing downstream from it. Minimize those opportunities for failure - i.e. as few shutoff valves / joints etc. as possible.
Member
Jan 7, 2006
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Toronto
question: does adding more shutoff valves decrease water pressure down stream or is it really dependent on the quality/lack of quality of the valve being added? Asking specific to pex pipes using the appropriate pex rings and pex valves.
[OP]
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Kevin711 wrote:
Feb 11th, 2019 9:22 pm
question: does adding more shutoff valves decrease water pressure down stream or is it really dependent on the quality/lack of quality of the valve being added? Asking specific to pex pipes using the appropriate pex rings and pex valves.
Dont see how it would, if its open its open, you are just adding a join in the line.
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Sep 12, 2017
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Kevin711 wrote:
Feb 11th, 2019 9:22 pm
question: does adding more shutoff valves decrease water pressure down stream or is it really dependent on the quality/lack of quality of the valve being added? Asking specific to pex pipes using the appropriate pex rings and pex valves.
In a small way it does. WIth the ring systems every time you put a connector inside the pipe it reduces the inner diameter of the pipe through that connector. Its a small change and only in a small section of the run so it doesn't affect it very much. However if there are enough connectors, elbows, etc...it can start to reduce flow. In terms of one or two connections I wouldn't worry about it. If you're talking more than a dozen, well yes it can affect things.

The expansion type (Pex-A, WIrsbo ProPex) doesn't reduce flow through the connectors as their internal diameter is the same as the internal diameter of the pipe. They materials are more expensive, the tools are more expensive, but are better performing.

CHM
[OP]
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CanadianHandyman wrote:
Mar 14th, 2019 8:08 am
In a small way it does. WIth the ring systems every time you put a connector inside the pipe it reduces the inner diameter of the pipe through that connector. Its a small change and only in a small section of the run so it doesn't affect it very much. However if there are enough connectors, elbows, etc...it can start to reduce flow. In terms of one or two connections I wouldn't worry about it. If you're talking more than a dozen, well yes it can affect things.

The expansion type (Pex-A, WIrsbo ProPex) doesn't reduce flow through the connectors as their internal diameter is the same as the internal diameter of the pipe. They materials are more expensive, the tools are more expensive, but are better performing.

CHM
Just learned something new, thanks. With the pressure coming from the city though, would this really be a noticeable issue? Low pressure I can see, as in a cistern and a jet pump.

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