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Phoenix payroll mess - 'Can't guarantee' fixing Phoenix won't cost $1B: Qualtrough

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Phoenix payroll mess - 'Can't guarantee' fixing Phoenix won't cost $1B: Qualtrough

Tories, NDP demand emergency meeting over Phoenix payroll mess
Opposition says Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has shirked responsibility by blaming previous government


Anyone here had been affected by the Phoenix payroll system problems?
Is an emergency meeting needed over this?
Last edited by tk1000 on Jul 25th, 2016 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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An emergency meeting is absolutely needed because this problem is continuing and isn't being resolved despite what the current government says. It's affected me and every other federal public service worker I know. Many people I know went months without being paid. Others tried to retire, go off on parental, sick leave, etc. but the pay center won't forward their ROE so they can't get their pension, EI or disability insurance. I personally took 4 weeks Parental leave, but my REO wasn't forwarded so I wasn't able to receive EI as a result.

The government estimates 80,000 people are affected, so it's probably double that. It's a mess. I don't care if Harper initiated this, the liberals could have postponed it until all the employees were properly trained. It takes a lot of training to do what those people do but they received almost no training. Unfortunately that's not uncommon. A lack of training is very common in the federal government. People learn as they go, always have.

The minister should be fired, but politicians are never held accountable. Nothing new. Different government, same incompetence
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Shaner wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 4:56 pm
The government estimates 80,000 people are affected, so it's probably double that. It's a mess. I don't care if Harper initiated this, the liberals could have postponed it until all the employees were properly trained. It takes a lot of training to do what those people do but they received almost no training. Unfortunately that's not uncommon. A lack of training is very common in the federal government. People learn as they go, always have.

The minister should be fired, but politicians are never held accountable. Nothing new. Different government, same incompetence
Its hard when its directly affecting you but you cant expect any party to fix all the problems that the Harper government left right away.

Liberals have only been in power for only 8 months. They cant perform miracles.
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Forgive me, I'm not 100% versed on the whole issue, but it's ridiculous that so many people are having their pay affected by this, but I'm not quite sure how the MPs (Cons, libs, NDP, or whatever your stripes are) will be able to do anything. The department heads and IT should be handling this and their bosses, why is this not happening? What happened to the old system, did they not do a phased roll out?
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Ojam wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 5:27 pm
Forgive me, I'm not 100% versed on the whole issue, but it's ridiculous that so many people are having their pay affected by this, but I'm not quite sure how the MPs (Cons, libs, NDP, or whatever your stripes are) will be able to do anything. The department heads and IT should be handling this and their bosses, why is this not happening? What happened to the old system, did they not do a phased roll out?
Seriously. This has to be one of the worst IT deployments in history. Did they just toss the entire old system and move to the new one without testing? Can they not just keep track of things manually for a while until they get it working? How is it at all acceptable to simply not pay people for the work they're doing for this long? This is third-world level bungling.
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Ojam wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 5:27 pm
Forgive me, I'm not 100% versed on the whole issue, but it's ridiculous that so many people are having their pay affected by this, but I'm not quite sure how the MPs (Cons, libs, NDP, or whatever your stripes are) will be able to do anything. The department heads and IT should be handling this and their bosses, why is this not happening? What happened to the old system, did they not do a phased roll out?
It was phased in. Just like the phased in approach to having pay services moved to Miramichi. They kept to the schedule even though the problems cropped up early on.

I've said this before, Phoenix is not the major problem, it's Miramichi. There aren't enough compensation advisors able to handle anything bu the simplest files. And there aren't enough people that live in the region to even begin to fill pay centre vacancies, and finally, no one wants to move there. I was affected by this disaster and I'm a long time federal employee. One day (TWO years ago!), pay day arrived and no deposit in my account. No warning. Didn't realize until two days later and thankfully I live in a small town and got a call from the bank and was able to transfer money into the account before mortgage and car payments were bounced. Did not get paid for 6 weeks.
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Shaner wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 4:56 pm
An emergency meeting is absolutely needed because this problem is continuing and isn't being resolved despite what the current government says. It's affected me and every other federal public service worker I know. Many people I know went months without being paid. Others tried to retire, go off on parental, sick leave, etc. but the pay center won't forward their ROE so they can't get their pension, EI or disability insurance. I personally took 4 weeks Parental leave, but my REO wasn't forwarded so I wasn't able to receive EI as a result.

The government estimates 80,000 people are affected, so it's probably double that. It's a mess. I don't care if Harper initiated this, the liberals could have postponed it until all the employees were properly trained. It takes a lot of training to do what those people do but they received almost no training. Unfortunately that's not uncommon. A lack of training is very common in the federal government. People learn as they go, always have.

The minister should be fired, but politicians are never held accountable. Nothing new. Different government, same incompetence
I've been involved with many software roll outs for the province and this is a case of somebody either not caring as long as they get paid or massive incompetence or somewhere in between. We have always run parallel with the old system until benchmarks were passed. This now appears to be a hot potato that nobody wants to take responsibility for so its like a snowball rolling downhill. Unstoppable and useless.

Typical political maneuvering where the blame can't be pinned on anyone because it was a Harper initiative. That'll be the excuse used and you folks will suffer while they diddle around until a sacrificial lamb is found.

I truly feel for you Fed workers. The magnitude of this screwup transcends any political party. I can't imagine implementation without a back out plan. Total and complete stupidity by the conservatives and now the liberals. Hopefully our less than esteemed prime minister ignores that system.

You know the Ontario system that denies plate renewal for outstanding fines? Don't bother to thank me, it was a pleasure making it work. :)
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BernardMarx wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 5:21 pm
So many tears.
You would be in tears if you hadn't got paid since February and only promises of emergency pay that never arrives. What a jerk off response.
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?
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king_george wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 6:08 pm
I've been involved with many software roll outs for the province and this is a case of somebody either not caring as long as they get paid or massive incompetence or somewhere in between. We have always run parallel with the old system until benchmarks were passed. ......
Typical political maneuvering where the blame can't be pinned on anyone because it was a Harper initiative. That'll be the excuse used and you folks will suffer while they diddle around until a sacrificial lamb is found.
..........Hopefully our less than esteemed prime minister ignores that system.

You know the Ontario system that denies plate renewal for outstanding fines? Don't bother to thank me, it was a pleasure making it work. :)
Well, I certainly hope you were not involved in the SAMS software that the Ministry of Community and Social Services has had to endure that is still not working over 2 years after roll out.
Yes, the Harper regime began the new pay system but it was the new regime that insisted that it be implemented now, regardless of that the mandarins told them not to do it , it was not ready.
If you are in the software roll out business, you then know that you cannot go back once the new system has been implemented and the employees that used the old system have been reassigned.
Doing it prematurely has been a problem for the government and no amount of additional temporary employees will help in the short term when the employees need to get paid.
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I guess this debunks the myth that public workers are rolling in money.
Some have absolutely no contingency funds and are literally living cheque to cheque.

FYI, I know of several who are affected and not surprised based on their standard of living.
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vkizzle wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 6:42 pm
I guess this debunks the myth that public workers are rolling in money.
Some have absolutely no contingency funds and are literally living cheque to cheque.

FYI, I know of several who are affected and not surprised based on their standard of living.
Many have no contingency, just like many in the private sector don't either. Society is buried in debt these days, both private and public sector workers.

It's not that some though. I've read stories of people coming back from long term leave due to fighting cancer and they're not getting paid. Even if they had a contingency plan, fighting cancer is often long and expensive. Others are just starting their careers so they haven't built up any savings. Others are students looking to pay for their schooling.

You can't paint everyone with the same brush. Besides, this shouldn't happen. Nobody should have to work for free. If this was a private company doing this, the government would be all over them
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Pete_Coach wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 6:38 pm
Well, I certainly hope you were not involved in the SAMS software that the Ministry of Community and Social Services has had to endure that is still not working over 2 years after roll out.
Yes, the Harper regime began the new pay system but it was the new regime that insisted that it be implemented now, regardless of that the mandarins told them not to do it , it was not ready.
If you are in the software roll out business, you then know that you cannot go back once the new system has been implemented and the employees that used the old system have been reassigned.
Doing it prematurely has been a problem for the government and no amount of additional temporary employees will help in the short term when the employees need to get paid.
Nope I haven't worked for queens park for 18 years now. I've lost touch with what's going on in the projects department since most of the people I worked with are long gone. That was worse that eHealth IMO.

The thing is that the Phoenix program should never had been rolled out until it proved itself. That's the main issue that was not addressed and all other issues flowed from that blunder. I'm pretty sure one of the brainless goofs in Ottawa insisted on plowing ahead with a useless system else they might not get their bonuses. As I said, we ran parallel and halted the process if we ran into showstoppers or training goals were not met. We had very few failures and only one roll back.

No project principles appear to have been followed here. A sure sign the CYA process was used instead and it's the employees who suffer, not the REMFs. I'm assuming you know what that acronym is. :)

This will stagger along until it blows up big time. That's the govt way of doing things. No action until it becomes a political issue. They just don't care.
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Shaner wrote:
Jul 25th, 2016 6:52 pm
Many have no contingency, just like many in the private sector don't either. Society is buried in debt these days, both private and public sector workers.

It's not that some though. I've read stories of people coming back from long term leave due to fighting cancer and they're not getting paid. Even if they had a contingency plan, fighting cancer is often long and expensive. Others are just starting their careers so they haven't built up any savings. Others are students looking to pay for their schooling.

You can't paint everyone with the same brush. Besides, this shouldn't happen. Nobody should have to work for free. If this was a private company doing this, the government would be all over them
I agree, thus referencing folks that I know who are currently impacted.

For students, totally understandable, but I'm not sure about those who were on leave, as they would have been covered at least 70% of their salary when on LTD.

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