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Phoenix payroll mess - 'Can't guarantee' fixing Phoenix won't cost $1B: Qualtrough

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  • Nov 15th, 2017 9:06 am
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Jul 5, 2004
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MyNameWasTaken wrote:
Sep 23rd, 2017 10:34 am
Yes, see my post above. They keep sending me cheques. Check your MyServiceCanada account online which will have your ROE and show your last day of employment.
If they're still paying him, they likely haven't forwarded the ROE yet. That's another common issue
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My wife got a huge deposit to her account a week or so ago. No explanation no letters no phone calls. Still no new info on her maternity top up that apparently never got processed last year.

Just a significant 5 figure deposit *boom* landed in her account.

At least we don't have to cringe at bills every month like we have for the past 9 since my son was born. If they come back with some kind of error and want to claw back we will tell them gfl.
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Aug 31, 2017
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Shaner wrote:
Sep 23rd, 2017 8:42 pm
If they're still paying him, they likely haven't forwarded the ROE yet. That's another common issue
They're still paying me too but they put an updated ROE on my file in May of this year, reflecting the date o actually left
Member
Nov 9, 2008
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1) How is it not a concern that the only company that was involved in the bidding process was IBM?

2) How is it possible for a company to take a contract for x amount of dollars and fail to deliver, and make more money because of it.

The second question may be more complicated but the first question? A multi million dollar contract, and one company goes in? And no one questions this? W T H. Why is noone questioning this!?

Thanks.
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Jan 10, 2009
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Did the tender only go out to one company or did only one company respond to the tender? Two different things, not sure which was the case here. A lot of companies don't take on government IT contracts anymore as they're usually a disaster and they don't want to be associated with them.
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Aug 2, 2017
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The goal under the conservative government was to save money.

They obviously didn't vet this company enough.

This is the drawback to wanting things cheap, especially minus the due diligence.

So the buck got passed to the Libs and they said to hell with it too.

Laziness and incompetence all around. I just wonder what the budget result is for this mess.
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AndySixx wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 5:24 pm

Laziness and incompetence all around. I just wonder what the budget result is for this mess.
Its called as Canadian way. Enjoy on taxpayers dime and screw taxpayers for mo money.
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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AndySixx wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 5:24 pm
The goal under the conservative government was to save money.

They obviously didn't vet this company enough.

This is the drawback to wanting things cheap, especially minus the due diligence.

So the buck got passed to the Libs and they said to hell with it too.

Laziness and incompetence all around. I just wonder what the budget result is for this mess.
The 2015 Canadian federal election (formally the 42nd Canadian general election) was held on October 19, 2015,
Just prior to the February 2016 launch, testing on the system was surprisingly incomplete, along with a large number of major defects in Phoenix that had "no planned fix date," say the consultants, who looked at everything that happened between 2008 and April 2016.
Still, the governing Liberals gave the go-ahead for the project early last year and since its launch, Phoenix has resulted in thousands of public servants being either overpaid, underpaid or not paid at all.
Its current government to blame. dont blame Conservatives for this. Like Wynne blames all Ontario problem on Mike Harris.
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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Sep 21, 2004
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1) this is not uncommon. It could've happened for a variety of reasons. It can be quite a complicated matter. The release of a competitive rfp is a very long and complex process. Depending on the contract value, different bodies require vetting by separate bodies as well. It may not have been done properly. I don't know.

2) it's complicated. Government contracts are an interesting beast.

*I am involved in government contracting.
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I really don't care who is to blame. I'm fine with blaming the Conservatives for the implementation of Phoenix, but at this point in time, the Liberals are now responsible. They could scrap the whole program and go back to the old program. They could run both programs side by side while working on fixing Phoenix. They could bring in other IT companies to help fix it. They choose not to do any of that though. They say the right things about fixing Phoenix, but it's no closer to being fixed now than it was a year ago. Every two weeks I wonder if my pay is going to be right or if I'm going to be paid at all. That shouldn't be the case. A co-worker of mine hasn't been paid right in over 16 months. The entire system is broken and there's no light at the end of the tunnel
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AndySixx wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 5:24 pm
The goal under the conservative government was to save money.

They obviously didn't vet this company enough.

This is the drawback to wanting things cheap, especially minus the due diligence.

So the buck got passed to the Libs and they said to hell with it too.

Laziness and incompetence all around. I just wonder what the budget result is for this mess.
Not defending the Conservatives but, the pay system did need overhaul and renewal. The old system was far too "modified" from very old software that it could no longer be made to work. It was not the Cons that made it happen before it was ready for release.
The system was to be implemented in small increments with one department at a time being absorbed. That would allow employees to become effective with the new system.
Along came the liberals with many things to change and many promises to deliver and one of the first things they did was force PWGSC to implement Phoenix nationally, which wasn't one of the promises and regardless of senior executive warnings not to do it and unions telling government the staff is not trained. They then made PWGSC and all departments to close down the established pay advisors and HR people and move them elsewhere so that a very few amount of people in Mirimachi will do it all immediate.
To call the workers at Miramachi or elsewhere lazy and incompetent is very wrong and an insult. For a department to get almost 300,000 files dumped on them all at once and then changes as result of new contract is unheard of and is also a reason for this F up.
Oh and, I am one of the ones that ar stuck in the mire...I thought I was clear but was wrong.
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?
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Shaner wrote:
Oct 10th, 2017 7:38 am
I really don't care who is to blame. I'm fine with blaming the Conservatives for the implementation of Phoenix, but at this point in time, the Liberals are now responsible. They could scrap the whole program and go back to the old program. They could run both programs side by side while working on fixing Phoenix. They could bring in other IT companies to help fix it. They choose not to do any of that though. They say the right things about fixing Phoenix, but it's no closer to being fixed now than it was a year ago. Every two weeks I wonder if my pay is going to be right or if I'm going to be paid at all. That shouldn't be the case. A co-worker of mine hasn't been paid right in over 16 months. The entire system is broken and there's no light at the end of the tunnel
Yeah my wife didn't get her mat leave for months since the paperwork wasn't properly processed.

She got a big dump of money recently with zero explanation on how it was calculated. No telling if it is what she is owed, too much or too little.

After this whole Phoenix fiasco she isn't going to bother returning to work after the 1 year leave as she expects she wouldn't get paid for it. Maybe in a few years when the dust from this disaster settles.
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this cbc news story has more details
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ph ... -1.4313389

amazing.. "80 collective agreements, 80,000 rules".. this system was doomed to fail as a roll it out all at once strategy. I've worked on complex systems like this, without process change to reduce the amount of rules it takes years to duplicate and implement correctly all the business rules. Telling people up front this system would mean everyone with the old system being laid off was the nail on the coffin. They should have kept them around for the new system and expunged any extras only after it was working.
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Jan 29, 2017
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d5486 wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 4:44 pm
1) How is it not a concern that the only company that was involved in the bidding process was IBM?

2) How is it possible for a company to take a contract for x amount of dollars and fail to deliver, and make more money because of it.

The second question may be more complicated but the first question? A multi million dollar contract, and one company goes in? And no one questions this? W T H. Why is noone questioning this!?

Thanks.
1. Surprising indeed. Not like IBM owns peoplesoft even then specs would normally have to be more generic to promote competition.

2. IBM delivered what they were requested to deliver. Specs/requirements in RFP were simply poorly defined. This is typically what happens with big projects for government. A bidder smells poor specs, underbids because they know a lot of custom work will have to be done to actually make things work for which they can charge big bucks. See how much IBM is getting extra for the project now. Hence I'm surprised no other bidders were inline.
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Pete_Coach wrote:
Sep 22nd, 2017 8:25 am
The "transfer" is a matter for your HR department. Was your pay adjusted and are you owed more? Pay is Phoenix and if your pay is not affected then no problem.
Still getting paid by old department. Once the transfer is finally done, I'll be owed a bunch of backpay. I also have overtime and expenses to claim that I can't until the transfer is completed. I know it's the HR departments that handle the transfers but I'm told they are all completely overwhelmed and backlogged due to Phoenix, hence why I blame Phoenix.

Edit: also wanted to specify I transferred from one agency to another.

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