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Phoenix payroll mess - 'Can't guarantee' fixing Phoenix won't cost $1B: Qualtrough

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  • Nov 15th, 2017 9:06 am
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rilles wrote:
Oct 10th, 2017 2:44 pm
amazing.. "80 collective agreements, 80,000 rules".. this system was doomed to fail as a roll it out all at once strategy. I've worked on complex systems like this, without process change to reduce the amount of rules it takes years to duplicate and implement correctly all the business rules. Telling people up front this system would mean everyone with the old system being laid off was the nail on the coffin. They should have kept them around for the new system and expunged any extras only after it was working.
You have federal public service unions demanding that Phoenix be fixed:

http://psacunion.ca/fix-phoenix

When the problem was caused in the first place as a result of the complex collective agreements they negotiated with their employer.

Priceless.......but not surprising. At the end of the day, union bosses are just politicians.
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'Can't guarantee' fixing Phoenix won't cost $1B: Qualtrough
Public Services and Procurement Minister Carla Qualtrough discusses tax havens and the ongoing issues with the Phoenix pay system.

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For those who would prefer not to watch a 9 min. video on this issue:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/minister ... -1.3672663
The minister responsible for the problem-plagued Phoenix pay system can't guarantee that the tab to get things under control won’t hit a billion dollars.

Public Services and Procurement Minister Carla Qualtrough says she can’t promise that taxpayers won’t be on the hook for a sky high bill to tame the payroll program that’s been smouldering for years.

On CTV's Question Period, host Evan Solomon asked Qualtrough if the cost to fix the public service pay system could hit a billion dollars. Her response was: "I hope not."

"I can’t guarantee that, no," she continued.

The Phoenix system, initiated by the previous Conservative government in 2009, was meant to streamline the payroll of public servants and save more than $70-million annually. Already, the government has planned to spend $400-million trying to fix it, including hiring more staff and setting up satellite pay centres in Gatineau, Montreal, Winnipeg, and Shawinigan, to try to chip away at the pile of remaining cases. It cost $309.5 million to implement the system.
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CheapScotch wrote:
Oct 25th, 2017 7:14 pm
You have federal public service unions demanding that Phoenix be fixed:

http://psacunion.ca/fix-phoenix

When the problem was caused in the first place as a result of the complex collective agreements they negotiated with their employer.

Priceless.......but not surprising. At the end of the day, union bosses are just politicians.
Yes the unions are very political. They are a major reason the Liberals got voted in but, in defence, the unions and the public service warned the government not to implement Phoenix quickly and to do it in stages, but the government didn't listen.
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?
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why are people voting liberal when they are gonna blow 1 billion trying to fix this crap lol. why is it so difficult in the first place to implement a piece of software that controls payroll, i dont even understand why this is an issue. how does the government manage to be so incompetent and screw this up.
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brandonly wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 8:05 pm
why are people voting liberal when they are gonna blow 1 billion trying to fix this crap lol. why is it so difficult in the first place to implement a piece of software that controls payroll, i dont even understand why this is an issue. how does the government manage to be so incompetent and screw this up.
You do know it was the Conservatives who implemented Phoenix right?
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Pete_Coach wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 8:41 am
Yes the unions are very political. They are a major reason the Liberals got voted in but, in defence, the unions and the public service warned the government not to implement Phoenix quickly and to do it in stages, but the government didn't listen.
That's conservative govt for you. Don't listen to scientist or experts let alone stakeholders. All they listen to are ideological idiots of their base even when it's detrimental to everyone

It's a shame conservatives have embraced radicals in their desperate grasp for power and welcome all the degenerates to their camp . Feds merged with the reform and provincial come merged with the wildrose . Shame as the PCs had some integrity in the past but threw it all away in their pursuit of power
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MrWhiteCoffee wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 8:06 pm
You do know it was the Conservatives who implemented Phoenix right?
and you do know that it was Liberal government decision to go live right? The fault lies with Liberals for ignoring report and adequate testing of system.
You can lie to everyone but cant lie to yourself.
Just prior to the February 2016 launch, testing on the system was surprisingly incomplete, along with a large number of major defects in Phoenix that had "no planned fix date," say the consultants, who looked at everything that happened between 2008 and April 2016.
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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MrWhiteCoffee wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 8:06 pm
You do know it was the Conservatives who implemented Phoenix right?
and you do know that it was Liberal government decision to go live right? The fault lies with Liberals for ignoring report and adequate testing of system.
You can lie to everyone but cant lie to yourself.
Just prior to the February 2016 launch, testing on the system was surprisingly incomplete, along with a large number of major defects in Phoenix that had "no planned fix date," say the consultants, who looked at everything that happened between 2008 and April 2016.
Still, the governing Liberals gave the go-ahead for the project early last year and since its launch, Phoenix has resulted in thousands of public servants being either overpaid, underpaid or not paid at all.
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
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brandonly wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 8:05 pm
why are people voting liberal when they are gonna blow 1 billion trying to fix this crap lol. why is it so difficult in the first place to implement a piece of software that controls payroll, i dont even understand why this is an issue. how does the government manage to be so incompetent and screw this up.
Just to repeat rilles' quote above:
"80 collective agreements, 80,000 rules".. this system was doomed to fail as a roll it out all at once strategy. I've worked on complex systems like this, without process change to reduce the amount of rules it takes years to duplicate and implement correctly all the business rules.


What you really should be asking is why the federal government payroll needs to be so complex in the first place.
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MrWhiteCoffee wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 8:06 pm
You do know it was the Conservatives who implemented Phoenix right?
MrWhiteCoffee wrote:
Nov 13th, 2017 8:07 pm
That's conservative govt for you. Don't listen to scientist or experts let alone stakeholders. All they listen to are ideological idiots of their base even when it's detrimental to everyone
.........
I truly hope that you are aware that it was in fact the Liberal government that forced Phoenix to go live? They were the ones that told the public service to use it regardless of public service objections.
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?
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CheapScotch wrote:
Nov 14th, 2017 6:06 am
Just to repeat rilles' quote above:



What you really should be asking is why the federal government payroll needs to be so complex in the first place.
Ahhhh, now for that, you have the unions and their absurd demands and bargaining to thank :)
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?
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Pete_Coach wrote:
Nov 14th, 2017 7:56 am
Ahhhh, now for that, you have the unions and their absurd demands and bargaining to thank :)
Well, as I said above, Union bosses are just politicians, and as such it is not in their interest to simplify things so that fewer of them are required.
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Wait, are people actually trying to blame the Conservatives for this? The project rollout was mismanaged under their watch but the actual switch to the system happened under the Liberals' watch and they were warned that there would be problems. If anyone ignored the experts it was the Liberals not the Conservatives.
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hugh_da_man wrote:
Nov 14th, 2017 6:02 pm
Wait, are people actually trying to blame the Conservatives for this? The project rollout was mismanaged under their watch but the actual switch to the system happened under the Liberals' watch and they were warned that there would be problems. If anyone ignored the experts it was the Liberals not the Conservatives.
Tis the nature of partisan politics.

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