The Playbook Thread

[Sgt_Strider]

I like where RIM is headed with this, unfortunately with these mobile devices it would appear applications dominate the consumer market, no doubt this is being marketed towards corporate use... For now...

The tablet wars had only just begun. There's no certainty that RIM is going to lose. The sad news is that this device won't launch until Q1 2011. By then, Apple would have announced the iPad 2 and I would imagine that it's going to be very competitive with the PlayBook in terms of spec. I certainly hope RIM will succeed as competition will force Apple to continue to innovate.

[Sgt_Strider]

If it's under $500, then I might consider buying it for developing applications using Java.

The obvious impression many people get is its similarity from Palm's WebOS. I personally believe that, if you compare all the fully-dedicated tablet operating systems currently on the market, I think that Apple's iOS and RIM's QNX will probably be the only main contenders that we'll see to succeed in the coming years. Where's Android in all of this, you may ask? Google has even said it themselves that the Android Platform isn't exactly optimized for tablets.

Google was referring to Froyo (aka 2.2) isn't optimized for tablets. From Gingerbread and onward, Android will be better optimized for Tablets. I definitely won't rule out Android at all.

[Sgt_Strider]

I can see uses for this in the enterprise space. Great for taking with you to business meetings or travelling. I don't see using this as a personal device though in comparison to the iPad.

At least RIM is ahead of others by introducing a tablet which so far is only dominated by the iPad. RIM missed the boat on the Torch and let Andriod took over the market.

RIM hasn't introduced anything to the market yet. The device won't launch until Q1 of next year and I'm sure the competition will release even more tablets while RIM prepares to launch the PlayBook. Don't get me wrong, I want to see RIM succeed, but they're introducing a new platform without any commitments from the developers' community. Hardware alone won't save RIM. They're going to need to get developers to develop compelling software for their Tablet. If they don't, then I can't imagine the PlayBook succeeding no matter how powerful the device is.

As amazing as the specs on the PlayBook is, what makes you think the competition won't introduce something just as fast by the time the PlayBook launches? Q1 2011 is a long time from now and there's a chance the iPad 2 will be released by then. Samsung is also planning a 10 inch Galaxy Tab for next year.

[hugh_da_man]

RIM hasn't introduced anything to the market yet. The device won't launch until Q1 of next year and I'm sure the competition will release even more tablets while RIM prepares to launch the PlayBook. Don't get me wrong, I want to see RIM succeed, but they're introducing a new platform without any commitments from the developers' community. Hardware alone won't save RIM. They're going to need to get developers to develop compelling software for their Tablet. If they don't, then I can't imagine the PlayBook succeeding no matter how powerful the device is.

As amazing as the specs on the PlayBook is, what makes you think the competition won't introduce something just as fast by the time the PlayBook launches? Q1 2011 is a long time from now and there's a chance the iPad 2 will be released by then. Samsung is also planning a 10 inch Galaxy Tab for next year.

RIM has a corporate user base. They don't need fart apps to compete, they need quality productivity apps that will more than likely be developed in-house. I imagine they'll push for gaming or something else on the playbook but it'll more than likely be targeted at corporate users which will allow them time to build a marketplace for things like games and fart apps.

The ipad is good for some people but the playbook seems like it will actually be a useful device for being productive. That and I think it has features for tethering and working with a blackberry and that could be a huge advantage over the iphone/ipad. All interaction between the iphone and ipad is usually 3rd party apps (from what I've seen) but it looks like the playbook will be able to pull off a tethered blackberry making you able to pull a presentation off your blackberry to review on your playbook, etc. That could be a huge feature for corporate users who want a tablet and are forced to have a blackberry.

Also, do you really think they'll release the ipad 2 by Q1 2011? Don't they usually release apple products yearly and the ipad was released in the spring was it not?

[ShadowVlican]

MUCH better than the iPad. Wow. I can't find a single flaw with this device. I had the iPad for just a week and I took it back because I couldn't honestly find a single use for it. Thank the heavens this has flash in it. And a front AND rear facing HD camera?! How freaking hard is it for apple to put this in the iPad? They put it in the refreshed iPod touches.

Give apple two weeks and they're gonna announce the new iPad 2.0. Losers.

lol...

Looks quite impressive to be honest. Much more impressive than an iPad as it actually adds functionality rather than just being a big ipod.

aka. the ipod touch had so much functionality that the ipad didn't have much to add

Google was referring to Froyo (aka 2.2) isn't optimized for tablets. From Gingerbread and onward, Android will be better optimized for Tablets. I definitely won't rule out Android at all.

yea... i'm looking forward to what google has in store for the tablet market

[MrWizard]

I'm betting this thing doesn't get close to iPad pricing without carrier subsidization. The lack of a price at the announcement leads me to believe that they are still ironing out details with a 3rd party (the carriers). If they were selling it outright, they would have already known what they are going to sell it for. There is no doubt that this is an amazingly powerful little device, but they've still got a big uphill battle ahead of them if they want to dethrone Apple. The way I see it, Apple has 2 major advantages:

- A massive head start. By the time the PlayBook is released, there will be rumblings of the next iPad and you'll have people waiting to see what that brings before they rush out and buy a PlayBook.
- The App Store. I know that RIM doesn't REALLY need fart apps, but they kind of do. Speaking as a BlackBerry owner, the app selection sucks. They need those fart app developers to make apps and show that the BB market is a place where money can be made, otherwise the devs will just stick to the iOS and Android platforms where the success has been proven and there are millions of devices out there.

[Sgt_Strider]

RIM has a corporate user base. They don't need fart apps to compete, they need quality productivity apps that will more than likely be developed in-house. I imagine they'll push for gaming or something else on the playbook but it'll more than likely be targeted at corporate users which will allow them time to build a marketplace for things like games and fart apps.

Where were you for much of 2010? Did you not read the last survey done in which corporations are seriously considering the iPhone as an enterprise phone? RIM is under serious threat not just from Apple, but Google as well. As big as RIM's base is, if they don't continue to innovate, they can and will lose customers in the future. In terms of quality productivity apps, those are not exclusive to the BB platform at all.

The ipad is good for some people but the playbook seems like it will actually be a useful device for being productive. That and I think it has features for tethering and working with a blackberry and that could be a huge advantage over the iphone/ipad. All interaction between the iphone and ipad is usually 3rd party apps (from what I've seen) but it looks like the playbook will be able to pull off a tethered blackberry making you able to pull a presentation off your blackberry to review on your playbook, etc. That could be a huge feature for corporate users who want a tablet and are forced to have a blackberry.

How can you say the PlayBook will be a better device for productivity when it's not even out yet? What makes the PlayBook better in that respect? The fact of the matter is that the iPad already have a bigger user base than the PlayBook. Let's not forget that there's a lot of hype on the PlayBook right now. We have no idea how it'll perform when it's released. Remember the hype when news of the Torch (9800) was leaked? Then reviews came out and slammed the product.

Also, do you really think they'll release the ipad 2 by Q1 2011? Don't they usually release apple products yearly and the ipad was released in the spring was it not?

The iPad was announced in January of this year. Assuming that Apple sticks to an annual update release cycle, then the iPad 2 will definitely be announced by Q1 2011.

[Sgt_Strider]

I'm betting this thing doesn't get close to iPad pricing without carrier subsidization. The lack of a price at the announcement leads me to believe that they are still ironing out details with a 3rd party (the carriers). If they were selling it outright, they would have already known what they are going to sell it for. There is no doubt that this is an amazingly powerful little device, but they've still got a big uphill battle ahead of them if they want to dethrone Apple. The way I see it, Apple has 2 major advantages:

- A massive head start. By the time the PlayBook is released, there will be rumblings of the next iPad and you'll have people waiting to see what that brings before they rush out and buy a PlayBook.
- The App Store. I know that RIM doesn't REALLY need fart apps, but they kind of do. Speaking as a BlackBerry owner, the app selection sucks. They need those fart app developers to make apps and show that the BB market is a place where money can be made, otherwise the devs will just stick to the iOS and Android platforms where the success has been proven and there are millions of devices out there.

I doubt there will be carrier subsidies for the wifi only version. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd imagine pricing is going to be competitive with the iPad or else it's not going to sell. What RIM needs to worry about isn't profit, but building an install base. No developer is going to devote much resources to the new Tablet if there isn't a big user base. I think Balsillie knows what RIM has to do in order to make the product successful.

I don't think it's a fair comparison that you're making here. The BB is using a completely different OS from the PlayBook's OS. Base on my understanding of the BB platform, it's a terribly old OS relative to iOS, Android, and even WP7.

[MrWizard]

I doubt there will be carrier subsidies for the wifi only version. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd imagine pricing is going to be competitive with the iPad or else it's not going to sell. What RIM needs to worry about isn't profit, but building an install base. No developer is going to devote much resources to the new Tablet if there isn't a big user base. I think Balsillie knows what RIM has to do in order to make the product successful.

I don't think it's a fair comparison that you're making here. The BB is using a completely different OS from the PlayBook's OS. Base on my understanding of the BB platform, it's a terribly old OS relative to iOS, Android, and even WP7.

Didn't realize there would be a wifi only version, but even still, I don't see them getting to iPad pricing.

I'm not saying that the PlayBook's OS is going to be terrible like the BB OS, I'm just saying that people already don't want to develop for one BB platform (partially because of it's limitations yes) but mostly because there doesn't appear to be a market for it. Now that could be because of the limitations on the OS and the hardware, but even with those limits, you'd think there'd be a few good apps.

[hugh_da_man]

Where were you for much of 2010? Did you not read the last survey done in which corporations are seriously considering the iPhone as an enterprise phone? RIM is under serious threat not just from Apple, but Google as well. As big as RIM's base is, if they don't continue to innovate, they can and will lose customers in the future. In terms of quality productivity apps, those are not exclusive to the BB platform at all.

They're considering the iphone but is anyone actually using the iphone? I've never seen numbers on corporations deploying iphones (or android phones), other than one or two devices in a fleet of BBs. Are people actually going to ditch their BES and go to the iphone with it's weak enterprise integration? I deal with IT people, I go to IT conferences, I pay attention to the industry and BB is still king. RIM will lose customers to Apple and Google but I doubt they'll lose too much from their core user base which is the corporate offices who own a BES, tons of BBs, and want a device people can use for email and phone but not necessarily fart or ruler apps.

How can you say the PlayBook will be a better device for productivity when it's not even out yet? What makes the PlayBook better in that respect? The fact of the matter is that the iPad already have a bigger user base than the PlayBook. Let's not forget that there's a lot of hype on the PlayBook right now. We have no idea how it'll perform when it's released. Remember the hype when news of the Torch (9800) was leaked? Then reviews came out and slammed the product.

I made my assumption off the fact that the video shows some great features in how the playbook interacts with a blackberry. I didn't say that it's definitely going to be a better device for productivity, I said "the playbook seems like it will actually be a useful device for being productive"...because I don't see the ipad as being a productive device but maybe the playbook will finally give us a tablet that is. I think people have found productive ways to use (drawing, mixing music, etc) the ipad but I just don't see too many companies deploying ipads to their employees. The consumer market for ipads will continue to do well I'm sure but as long as the playbook is useful you may see it replacing laptops in a lot of corporate environments.

And as sad as it is...the Torch really has sold pretty well. It's probably the best blackberry you can buy and if you want a blackberry with a touchscreen you'll buy a Torch. It wasn't as good spec wise when compared against the iphone and android devices but most users don't even understand specs so I guess it doesn't hurt them too much.

The iPad was announced in January of this year. Assuming that Apple sticks to an annual update release cycle, then the iPad 2 will definitely be announced by Q1 2011.

See that's what I'm not sure of with Apple. New products usually get announced and are listed for shipment in a couple months (like the ipad) whereas product refreshes usually get announced and are available that day through the website or within a week (like the new iphone). So does Apple announce the new features of a refreshed ipad and give it a two month along release date or do they actually release the new ipad in Q1 2011? I'm thinking that with all the news about a smaller ipad and all that we'll probably see an ipad 2 with a 9.7 inch screen actually released end of Q1 but by then that may be a little bit after the playbook and other android tablets.

Finally, I don't really care except for the fact that I'm glad companies are continuing to improve this market. Apple did a decent job in building off the tablet and UMPCs of the past but I still think there is room for improvement. I gave up my BB a long time ago and I dislike my iphone so I don't really care about either of the companies overall success but if they build a decent tablet I'll probably buy one.

[zoolander]

The hype is too early, the competing tablets will have comparable specs in and around Playbook release time.
Regardless of the types of apps, BB seriously lacks them. As a current user of a BB9700, iPhone4 and iPad, I rather use a tethered 11-14" notebook fitted with an SSD than a Playbook for business.
My wife is starting to use our iPad for her work and it doesn't necessarily get shut off for the day when she clocks out, mainly because of its app versatility which makes it a truly 24/7 device.

One of the few advantages RIM has is it bought out DocumentsToGo, a strategic move, which means support will end for other OSs, leaving them to trail by attrition. It is probably at the moment, the best mobile business app that integrates and syncs desktop business products.

[smartie]

It is not hardware,the key is applications. There are a lot of devices are far more better than IPAD, but applications rule

[toalan]

Even if the thing turns out to be a big turd, RIM will still sell a million or two and make good money on the product. As a business, you get to give your employee something that is seen as a perk, makes the employee a bit happier and is a 100% writeoff for tax purposes, Playbook will fly off the shelf. It is much harder to justify an Ipad than a RIM playbook.

RIM has a clear competitive advantage in the business segment than ipad, if the thing bombs it is a clear sign that RIM needs to axe it's hardware division, most of their software devision, and just publish RIM software for android and other devices.

[zoolander]

RIM shares drop 4% after Playbook announcement.

While it may sell, it won't have the fervor the iPad did and is still somewhat riding. Once iPad2 and the variety of android tabs come out, cheap and premium, the Playbook will have very stiff competition. Look at it this way, if you're not in business, you're less likely to buy one as your toy.. In contrast, BB phones appeal across cohorts, not just the corporate world.

[mariokarter]

man this thing actually looks good (which is a bit surprising as RIM is playing catch up in the mobile OS space right now). If the price is right, or if I could get an AWS version I think that would be enough for me to get it.

EDIT: it doesn't have GPS though? thats a bummer.