Poll finds 35% of Westerners think splitting from Canada should be explored

[devious9191]

More than one-third of Westerners younger than 30 think their provinces should consider quitting Canada, showing the strongest support for sovereignty among all ages, a recent poll reveals.

Fully 36.4% of people between 18 and 29 in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba agree "Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country."

The sentiment is not exclusive to youth.

Across all age groups, 35.6% of Westerners favour debating sovereignty.

Albertans lead with 41.9% support, compared to 31.9% in Saskatchewan, 30.8% in British Columbia, and 27.5% in Manitoba.

"Westerners are very frustrated with their position in Confederation," said Faron Ellis, a political science professor at Lethbridge Community College, who conducted the poll for Western Standard magazine.

He warns that, at a time when Canada is not facing a major national crisis, this level of dissatisfaction could be a sign of worse things to come.

''There's really nothing aside from the ongoing institutionalized grievances to be angry about, and for the most part in all four provinces the economy is going fairly well,'' Mr. Ellis said.

''Canadians across the country should be aware that if these are the bedrock levels of frustration without a crisis, the next crisis [will have] Westerners at least debating the concept,'' he added.

Even though most young people were not alive during divisive political crises such as the National Energy Program, "they register among the highest levels of support for discussing independence," Mr. Ellis said.

Mr. Ellis believes young people are aware of both modern and historical difficulties affecting the West.

"They hear from their parents. They hear it daily on the streets. They know about current injustices. When federal issues come up, this group sees themselves outside of the debate, their opinions marginalized," Mr. Ellis said.

Gerald Baier, a University of British Columbia professor of political science, said young people are more likely to support the idea of sovereignty because they are often more open-minded than older generations.

"The question doesn't ask them to state support for the idea of sovereignty but for the idea of exploring it. Why shouldn't you look into all ideas? It might even be a matter of idealism," Mr. Baier added.

The poll also shows 64% of Westerners think Prime Minister Paul Martin is doing a poor job of ending Western alienation.

Another 40.4% say that if the Liberal party wins the next election they will be more in favour of exploring independence.

Mr. Ellis believes these Westerners feel they have exhausted every possible solution to improve their standing in Ottawa, citing the failures of the Reform and Canadian Alliance parties to gain power.

"It's hard for any new party in Canada to do well," Mr. Baier said.

The Western Canada Concept Party registered with Elections Canada 25 years ago with a platform calling for separation of the four Western provinces, but never came close to electing an MP.

Neither have the Separation Party of Alberta or the Western Independence Party of Saskatchewan managed to win more than marginal popular votes in recent years.

Doug Christie, the free speech lawyer for Holocaust deniers Jim Keegstra and Ernst Zundel who co-founded the Western Canada Concept, announced in January the formation of yet another separatist party, the Western Block. Anne McLellan, deputy prime minister at the time, disputed any hopes for this federal party, saying, "I don't think Mr. Christie will find a very welcoming audience in this province, in Newfoundland or anywhere else for his separatist rhetoric," she said.

Bruce Hutton, leader of the Alberta separatist party, told the Western Standard: "One of the things that makes separation a hard sell is that we have to get people to think of the future, not the present, to sell our message."

Despite Western frustration, Mr. Baier said, to voters there "these parties have been perceived as fringe parties."

Mr. Ellis said the dissatisfaction felt among residents of these provinces runs deep, and should be taken seriously.

The poll was conducted by telephone between June 29 and July 5, 2005, and involved 1,448 randomly selected Western residents.

The margin of error was plus or minus 2.6%, 19 times out of 20.

© National Post 2005

http://www.canada.com/national/natio...836e4f9&page=1

[Lando]

No surprise to me, it has been a problem for a long time now and yet nothing gets done.

[devious9191]

No surprise to me, it has been a problem for a long time now and yet nothing gets done.

Definitely. In federal politics, the PM is elected before the polls even close in the West, and that's reflected in federal policies. No point in giving anything to the Western provinces when the only votes that count are in Ontario and Quebec.

[Eternity]

personally I don't see how separating from Canada and form their own country would improve their own economy. In fact, it doesn't at all. I am probably biased cuz I am in Ontario with the big guns, but just for example, sure Alberta got their oil, they can't make food out of oil right? Every province has their own asset to share, that's what make it a Canadian economy, and that's how a economy prosper. Now if the province were to separate, less trades will occur, less money flowing in their own "country" leads to poorer economy. Not to mention they will lose benefits for being a Canadian citizen. maybe somebody from those provinces can enlighten me on what's benefit it has to separate from Canada?

[devious9191]

personally I don't see how separating from Canada and form their own country would improve their own economy. In fact, it doesn't at all. I am probably biased cuz I am in Ontario with the big guns, but just for example, sure Alberta got their oil, they can't make food out of oil right? Every province has their own asset to share, that's what make it a Canadian economy, and that's how a economy prosper. Now if the province were to separate, less trades will occur, less money flowing in their own "country" leads to poorer economy. Not to mention they will lose benefits for being a Canadian citizen. maybe somebody from those provinces can enlighten me on what's benefit it has to separate from Canada?

Well, how it works is pretty simple. In Canada, there are basically 3 provinces that produce more than they spend (Alberta, BC and Ontario), as well as the territories, but they work a little bit differently.

The West (with the exception of BC) tends to have different social views than the East. In Canada, politics are geared towards the East, particularly when it comes to social policies. The problem with this, is that you have provinces like Alberta that pay out far more than they spend supporting a country which they don't feel even listens to their opinions (and it doesn't).

So what is the benefit for a province like Alberta to stay a part of Canada? They could sell their oil to the US. They could explore private healthcare, and they could give one way bus tickets to everyone on welfare in the whole province to Ontario. So why would they want to stay?

[cipher]

Manitoba should be considered both West and East...we're smack dab in the middle.

[Txiasaeia]

personally I don't see how separating from Canada and form their own country would improve their own economy. In fact, it doesn't at all. I am probably biased cuz I am in Ontario with the big guns, but just for example, sure Alberta got their oil, they can't make food out of oil right? Every province has their own asset to share, that's what make it a Canadian economy, and that's how a economy prosper. Now if the province were to separate, less trades will occur, less money flowing in their own "country" leads to poorer economy. Not to mention they will lose benefits for being a Canadian citizen. maybe somebody from those provinces can enlighten me on what's benefit it has to separate from Canada?

Alberta also has beef. Saskatchewan has grain. BC has lumber and all sorts of fishing exports. Your argument that, if the west separates from Canada they will lose money because of less trades, doesn't hold water: Canada is minscule compared to the US (in terms of population), and yet we still seem to be doing fine as a separate country.

You're right - you're from Ontario and you don't get it. For example, Devious mentioned that the PM typically gets chosen before the polls close here; why should anybody here bother to vote if it doesn't make a difference?

I'd definitely like to explore some options for the West ceding from the confederacy. Why? Because all people ever hear about it is mostly useless info, like the article. I'd like to know if it's economically feasable, how the new country would interact with the rest of Canada, and in short whether it would work.

I don't hate Ontario or Quebec by any stretch of the imagination, but the western provinces need to do what's best for *us*. In my opinion, that doesn't mean staying within a country that obviously cares little about us - except when it comes time for transfer payments to be made.

[Eternity]

Fine, so what if BC and Alberta have surpluses? It doesn't mean anything in terms of future stability. you can't say Canada did nothing to help them get to the point of having surplus in their provinces. Whenever there are surplus, they should go and relieve those provinces that aren't doing well to get them on their feet. Not stave them to death.

What is the point of being in a country with free healthcare? we all paid for healthcare even if you don't use it now, you use it when you need to. I am sure there are times when Canada is there to lend BC and Alberta a hand when they needed it.

It might seems to be a little "communist thinking" such that we should all chip in so that everyone is equal. However it you studied it more you can see its potential benefits.

I hadn't been following politics lately, so I have no idea of the issues going on that triggers this poll, and the people desire to separate. I will agree to the point that the West may not have a strong voice in the parliament, however, that is up to the respective politician and how good of a job they do to represent their own provinces. That is the idea of having a parliament, and everyone vote for their respective ideal. Since the liberals are strongly rooted in Ontario, that has probably created an imbalance in the governement, and why so many westerners are upset.

I still stand my point that separatist wont do as well as if they all work as one country

[mbg]

I don't hate Ontario or Quebec by any stretch of the imagination, but the western provinces need to do what's best for *us*. In my opinion, that doesn't mean staying within a country that obviously cares little about us - except when it comes time for transfer payments to be made.

I hope you get something out of it -- either separation or more attention. It is only fair, seeing as Quebec gets all kinds of unjustified attention just for squeaking "separation" once in awhile. In fact, I don't think it's going too far to say that the entire country is governed through the lens of Quebec separation.

[luthair]

Definitely. In federal politics, the PM is elected before the polls even close in the West, and that's reflected in federal policies. No point in giving anything to the Western provinces when the only votes that count are in Ontario and Quebec.

This hasn't been true since the Bloc Quebecois became a federal party.

[Txiasaeia]

I hadn't been following politics lately, so I have no idea of the issues going on that triggers this poll...

Ah, enough said. In other words, you have no idea what you're talking about. Fair enough.

[jed]

Fine, so what if BC and Alberta have surpluses? It doesn't mean anything in terms of future stability. you can't say Canada did nothing to help them get to the point of having surplus in their provinces. Whenever there are surplus, they should go and relieve those provinces that aren't doing well to get them on their feet. Not stave them to death.

What is the point of being in a country with free healthcare? we all paid for healthcare even if you don't use it now, you use it when you need to. I am sure there are times when Canada is there to lend BC and Alberta a hand when they needed it.

It might seems to be a little "communist thinking" such that we should all chip in so that everyone is equal. However it you studied it more you can see its potential benefits.

I hadn't been following politics lately, so I have no idea of the issues going on that triggers this poll, and the people desire to separate. I will agree to the point that the West may not have a strong voice in the parliament, however, that is up to the respective politician and how good of a job they do to represent their own provinces. That is the idea of having a parliament, and everyone vote for their respective ideal. Since the liberals are strongly rooted in Ontario, that has probably created an imbalance in the governement, and why so many westerners are upset.

I still stand my point that separatist wont do as well as if they all work as one country

The key phrase here tho, is to "work as one country". In the Western view, its all about whats best for the Grits, and their fiscally irresponsible ways of shoving our tax dollars into their own, and their buddie's pockets. And, then its about the people who continually put these morons back into power.

I'm not sure if it is the media that skews everything so bad or what. But, if you give a kid money to buy shoes and he/she blows it on candy, its not likely you're going to give them anymore. But in our view, its like, "Oh heck, you pi$$ed away that money? Well, heck theres lots more where that came from, here you go!"

[afong56]

these poll results are not news.

at any given time, if you were to poll ontarians, i'd bet that 35% want to cede from canada too.

the other part of the equation is that a full 65% of westerners do not want to cede, in other words, almost twice as many people are federalists. there goes the story.

do some of the western provinces have a legitimate claim, valid issues regarding the unfair nature of their relationship to the rest of the country? sure. but so does ontario.

would alberta or b.c. be better off on their own? maybe. would ontario? maybe. but let's face facts, despite the b!tching and moaning, all of the provinces belong together in canada. as an ontarian, i understand and accept the fact that we are one of the provinces that carry the load, so to speak--i seriously doubt that there is a federation of states anywhere in the world where all component members contribute an equal share. this is reality. it's not perfect, but it functions.

as for that silly statement about sending welfare recipients to ontario--haha, good joke.

[Txiasaeia]

as an ontarian, i understand and accept the fact that we are one of the provinces that carry the load, so to speak--i seriously doubt that there is a federation of states anywhere in the world where all component members contribute an equal share. this is reality. it's not perfect, but it functions.

But as somebody from Ontario, while your tax dollars might be going somewhere else, at least your needs are being recognised by the government. You're getting your money's worth out of transfer payments. For us in the West, it feels like we're just shovelling money into some huge Liberal money pit and not getting anything back in return.

[Shaner]

I've been saying it for years.

The Liberals are destroying this country. People are so scared of what the Conservatives might do, that they are willing to look the other way while the Grits tear this country apart from the inside out.

During the current liberal reign, the biggest transportation system in Canada (the TTC) has crumbed almost beyond repair, the health care system is so far beyond repair that nothing short of a complete overhaul can fix it, and the education system has diminished more than ever before. Those are just some examples, there are tons more.

Say what you want about the conservatives, but truth be told, nobody actually knows whether they would be good for our country or not. What we do know, however, is that the Liberals are destroying this country.