Automotive

Is it possible to do this in court?

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  • Feb 11th, 2009 12:11 pm
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Nov 27, 2006
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Jon Lai wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 8:03 pm
I'm not 100% sure but this is how I have been told how it works.

The ticket you get has your conviction and a fine on it. The fine is written by the officer, it can be anything s/he desires (well, not really, but you know what I mean), s/he can lower it, which is the OP's case.

If and when you fight it, you are fighting for the conviction. The conviction carries a maximum penalty on it, which you are subject to. If you plead guilty after that, the fine may be reduced from the maximum. Doesn't make sense to me though, because if you are going to plead guilty anyways, might as well pay the reduced fines from the beginning and save the time going to court.

Basically the reduced fines is like a "settlement" in a sense.
First, you're not fighting a conviction, your fighting or defending a charge. It doesn't become a conviction until you're found guilty. The amount that the cop writes on the ticket is the set fine amount for whatever speed he's put you at + surcharge. If you are pleading guilty, it's either to the original charge in which case you'll pay the full amount that's written on the ticket, OR after making a plea deal with the prosecutor, you are pleading to a lesser charge (e.g. instead of 20k over that you were originally charged with, you agree to plead to 15k over) which carries with it a lower set fine and that's what you pay + surcharge. Also for each range of speeds there is a set amount of demerit points.

So the JP isn't giving you a lower fine, the JP is taking a plea to a lesser charge that carries with it a lesser fine. The JP actually has no discretion wrt the amount of the fine (or points), the fines are set/fixed according to the speed over that you're pleading to (or found guilty of if you go to trial and lose).
_protege_ wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 7:00 pm
What happens if I show up, the cop is not there, then the cop is late.

Does the trial start without him/her? Do they wait for the cop for a certain amount of time?
stuntman wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 7:25 pm
I could be wrong here, but, not only does the cop not have to be present you have to present a reason....so have one ready. Like "I was not speeding"

Is this your 3rd speeding ticket or something? Insurance companies usually don't check unless there is a status change on the insurance, like a new car.

sm

If the cop isn't there when they call your case, the case is dismissed most of the time. If the cop is in another courtroom at the moment s/he's called for your case or if the cop has advised the Crown s/he is, say stuck in traffic but on the way, the Crown can do one of two things: 1) not call your case till the cop arrives (it's the Crown that calls the cases, not the Court) or, 2) if s/he calls your case only to find out the cop isn't there, can ask that the matter be 'stood down', meaning held till later basically and you are stuck waiting. That rarely happens in HT Court though, unless it's a serious case or the Crown really has it out for you. The JP can agree or not to stand it down. If the JP doesn't agree to stand it down, or if the Crown doesn't even ask for it to be stood down, the case is dismissed.

If the cop isn't there and there are no other witnesses (and there usually aren't in most HT cases), you don't have to give any defense at all. They have no witness, they have no case, you have nothing to defend and the charge has to be dismissed.



So yes, it is a settlement, it's just that it's called a 'resolution' or a 'plea agreement' if you want to be picky...lol.
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Dec 7, 2008
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chilicat wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 7:29 pm
Pretty sure there's case law to back it up too..
Some interesting cases: R. v. Aristidou, 2007 Here the officer charged the guy with speeding 85 in a 70. They got into it so the officer tells him "next time keep your mouth shut" and changes the ticket to 93 in a 70! The court rules the officer can alter the certificate before filing after which only the court can amend it.

In London (City) v. Young, 2008 the court rules that the ticket you get and the certificate that's filed in court must be the same. Doherty J. dissents supporting York (Regional Municipality) v. Wilson (2005) which says they don't have to be the same.

Moral: it really depends on the justice you get and their school of thought.

Also set fines apply to guilty pleas while statutory fines apply to convictions (see [url=http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/20 ... cj391.html]R. v. O
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Cool, bookmarked your site, I'll probably need it in the future.
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Feb 9, 2009
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_protege_ wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 3:03 pm
Yes, $45 is a small price, but a conviction isn't that small for insurance.
Then don't be an @ss, face the consequences of what you did, pay the fine, stop speeding and dont clog up the legal system with a waste-of-time case. And if your insurance goes up, you deserved it
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Aug 13, 2005
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MS MSP wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 1:50 pm
yes, but you will have to pay court fees as well.

Cops are paid to be in court, all their tickets are scheduled for the same day.

The cop will be there 98% of the time.
I am not too sure if Cops are paid to show up in court. Can anyone elaborate on this? I was told that cops almost never show up.
BTW, I live in BC
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don_lee103 wrote:
Feb 11th, 2009 3:28 am
I am not too sure if Cops are paid to show up in court. Can anyone elaborate on this? I was told that cops almost never show up.
BTW, I live in BC
Do not know about BC, but over here the cop still gets paid.
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MS MSP wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 1:50 pm
yes, but you will have to pay court fees as well.

Cops are paid to be in court, all their tickets are scheduled for the same day.

The cop will be there 98% of the time.
Really? Is there any stats to back that up. I would really be curious if it is that much.

I remember my girlfriend got a ticket for invalid ownership or something like that, which was an invalid ticket actually. The ministry made a typo on the ownership (put the month and the year backwards). The officer failed to call and check (like she was suppose to do) and issued a ticket instead. The police station apologized to her for the officers negligence and told my g/f to fight it.

We got pulled over because I was not wearing my seatbelt (stupid me, we were just about at my house and I took it off and then an officer popped out.... lesson learned). I faught it anyway and the officer showed up to my trial but then left right after because my G/F's trial was next and she did not show to that. I guess she knew it was her fault and did not want to show and waste her time.

My brother is lucky, he is 5/5 on fighting his tickets because of officers not showing up. That being said 2 of those tickets were for silly things on my brothers part such as forgetting his licence or the company cars insurance being expired by one day (insurance agent drops off our cards near expire date but I guess forgot to make it by deadline..lol) which if he goes into court with the valid licence and insurance then usually you will win regardless.
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Apr 17, 2006
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I just fought my ticket yesterday.

It was a reduced ticket; 50 in a 40 zone, original was 62. Original fine was $56.

Went to court, cop was there so I pleaded guilty but towards the end the judge asked if there's anything else I'd like to add.

"Is there anything else you would like to add?"
> "Your worship I'd like to request a fine reduction if possible"
"Ok how's $15 and 30 days to pay?"
> "Awesome, thanks" :lol:

Court fee/surcharge is $10 for fines of $0-50.
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ticketcombat wrote:
Feb 9th, 2009 6:01 pm
They can't raise the charge back up on the original ticket but that doesn't stop some prosecutors from "threatening" to raise it back up to intimidate pretrial negotiations. There's also the threat of withdrawing the charge and issuing a part 3 summons which is perfectly legal within 6 months.

The victim surcharge is a fixed amount up to $1000, after which it's 25%. See Reg 161

Court costs are $5 (for the officer handing you the ticket). This is on top of the victim surcharge. See Reg 945.
unfortunately, my coworker happened to get his original fine raised back up since he tried to fight it.

FYI.
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Rekognize wrote:
Feb 11th, 2009 10:38 am
I just fought my ticket yesterday.

It was a reduced ticket; 50 in a 40 zone, original was 62. Original fine was $56.

Went to court, cop was there so I pleaded guilty but towards the end the judge asked if there's anything else I'd like to add.

"Is there anything else you would like to add?"
> "Your worship I'd like to request a fine reduction if possible"
"Ok how's $15 and 30 days to pay?"
> "Awesome, thanks" :lol:

Court fee/surcharge is $10 for fines of $0-50.
so 15$+ 10$ total fine is what you'll have to pay?
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Tomy wrote:
Feb 11th, 2009 11:51 am
so 15$+ 10$ total fine is what you'll have to pay?
Yes. Even if the fine was waived but you're convicted you still have to pay $10
[OP]
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Stellamama wrote:
Feb 10th, 2009 9:43 pm
Then don't be an @ss, face the consequences of what you did, pay the fine, stop speeding and dont clog up the legal system with a waste-of-time case. And if your insurance goes up, you deserved it
I didn't make this thread to get biased opinions, but to get advice.

Anyways, no, I don't want my insurance to go up because of this. I don't care if I deserved this ticket or not or if I am clogging up the legal system. Regardless if you think it is a "waste-of-time case" or not, I have a right to do what I'm doing. With all the taxes I pay to help fund the legal system, this is small return.
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Oct 27, 2008
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Rekognize wrote:
Feb 11th, 2009 11:53 am
Yes. Even if the fine was waived but you're convicted you still have to pay $10
Can't really "waive the fine" and get charge with conviction without any fine to pay...If you did not get convicted or charges were drop then there is no fine or court case & etc to pay

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