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Deal Addict
Dec 11, 2006
2071 posts
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Ajax
2020 and beyond. They need to release a console that eclipses Xbox One X, not something similar. Looking at that kind of horsepower today is very expensive to make in a console. It will be all about getting components cheap enough for mass production.
Deal Fanatic
Feb 11, 2007
5911 posts
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JackWhyte wrote:
Oct 10th, 2017 8:19 am
... that runs all their existing Xbox One and Xbox 360 BC game software.

if Sony goes all "walled garden" and makes up all kinds of excuses why their "new PC-based console" can't run games from their "old PC-based console", then don't expect such a warm welcome and I would think 20X before buying into a PS5 at release.

personally, I have no problem upgrading console hardware on a regular basis if it fits the PC gaming model, i.e. my Steam library doesn't get tossed in the garbage every generation just to resell "new" versions of existing games.
PS3 used Cell architecture mostly made by IBM with 6 cores inefficiently draining resources from one another, which is not similar to normal PCs at all.
People have not been able to make a working PS3 emulator because of that.

If backwards compatibility were such an important aspect for most gamers, the XBox One would not be so far behind in sales if it is an
important selling point. Nintendo also cut off backwards compatibility with the Nintendo Switch and it still sells exceedingly well.

Less than 2% of XBox One users actually use backwards compatibility.
https://www.vg247.com/2017/06/07/less-t ... ll-report/
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/06/ ... sage-time/

Remasters are great IMO.
Higher resolutions, much more stable framerates than the chuggy framerates in a lot of the more demanding games
running on last gen consoles in most cases, and other improvements like true HD textures, added content, etc.

Since Mark Cerny has been put in charge of designing the PS4 and PS5, the PS5 would most likely be backwards compatible but who knows.

JackWhyte wrote:
Oct 10th, 2017 8:30 am
Now that I think about it, I'm in the same boat and the games I continually go back to play/replay on PS4/Xbox One are actually *all* last-gen games like Diablo 3 (basically the reason I own consoles right now), GTA V, FarCry 4, Last of Us, Tomb Raider, Mordor, the Borderlands games, and a few others. If Blizzard had upgraded the last-gen editions of D3, I would really start questioning the value of this console gen.

The last gen versions of Diablo 3 run choppy on old hardware. Those last gen systems can't even come close to
maintaining 60 frames per second even though the native resolution of the last gen versions of Diablo 3 is below 720p.

XBox 360 and PS3 console versions were riddled with framerate drops and screen tearing despite rendering at a low 1120 x 568 native resolution (70% the pixel output of 720p resolution).
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... 3-face-off

Last edited by XFactor11 on Oct 10th, 2017 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Dec 12, 2006
4754 posts
609 upvotes
I don't think we'll see anything from Sony till 2020. They have a massive sales lead as it exists and they are probably not too eager to hit the reset button so soon especially since they just released the PS4 Pro. If they do I fully expect the console to be B/C with at least PS4 games (PS3 games are highly doubtful) and I certainly hope they provide a solution that is as elegant as XB1. I really beleive this needs to be a feature of consoles moving forward and unless something changes I don't see any reason why it can't be.

Not to sidetrack too much but I love BC on XB1, having games you previously bought just randomly show up on ready to install is great. Since we are dealing with digital licenses now it has been a much bigger deal and far more useful then it has been in the past. Also GWG has been much better since they started to include Xbox 360 games.
I've used it to play and/or re-play a number of games.

I don't think its fair to question the validity/popularity of BC by pointing at sales data as it was added mid cycle but for a lot of people its a big selling point and reason to keep their XB1 around. Ignoring sales data though its a great consumer friendly feature, why would anyone not want it? But Sony's reasoning behind this has been bunk, I'd settle if they were honest and said it's just too difficult to do B/C with the Cell Architecture but instead their response is that no one wants it.

Also that article you posted has a correction in it, its wrong:
Correction: Undercounted usage data in our Xbox Unleashed analysis

To counter that argument, games like Call of Duty BO and still show up on the most played games list on XB1 and had massive player count boosts when BC initially went up for them..
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Aug 20, 2009
5872 posts
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Grimsby
I like BC because I replay old games but not many people I know do. Either way binary compatibility shouldn't be a big deal next gen unless Sony goes nuts and tries to use some boutique processor again (unlikely).

I agree with Spicy though, I don't think we'll see a PS5 any time soon. They are dominating Microsoft and still outselling Nintendo overall, though Nintendo has an insane growth curve at the moment. The One X is too expensive to move in significant numbers quickly (and Microsoft made the last gen Nintendo mistake of naming their consoles too similarly) which gives Sony plenty of time to react to market demand. Companies usually want to manufacture as long as possible to get production savings due to learning curve. So yeah 2019 introduction and 2020 release sounds more likely to me.
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Mar 21, 2006
2293 posts
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Chatham
I'm sure they are using a 6 year cycle, with mid-gen refresh at each 3 years. The only thing that may adjust this if the CPU technology isn't ready for the next jump. I think though that Ryzen is a good bet for 2019, console wise.

2013 PS4.......(Jaguar CPU)
2016 PS4 Pro (Jaguar CPU)(mid-gen refresh)
------------------------------------------
2019 PS5.......(Ryzen CPU) (also 25th Anniversary of PS1)
2022 PS5 Pro (Ryzen CPU)(mid-gen refresh)
------------------------------------------
2025 PS6.......(? CPU)
2028 PS6 Pro (? CPU)(mid-gen refresh)

Thinking about this...what if they kept the PS4 name for a new refresh. PS4 Zen for example. So a mid-gen refresh with Ryzen. It would then be win win for them as they are still having it a PS4 and their sales number does not start over. Not win-win for consumers though as we don't want PS4 OG holding a new console back. Unless they have PS4 Zen games BC to all PS4 games, but PS4 OG will not run PS4 Zen games.
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Mar 12, 2005
7366 posts
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Victoria
I think it's bad form to do another mid-life upgrade. If consoles need upgrades.... and it's going to become a thing... then make the ps5 and make it up-gradable.. so the next gen you don't have to buy a whole new console to get the upgrades.
Sr. Member
Nov 22, 2007
705 posts
29 upvotes
A bit off topic, but is the PS4 slim in glacier white no longer available? I’ve asked around Best Buy wal net eb games etc... they only have PS4 pro.
Deal Fanatic
Feb 11, 2007
5911 posts
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Those are limited edition consoles. Once they sell out, more are not made after a certain amount of time has passed.

I think the launch model white PS4 was part of a bundle with Destiny 1 and that was almost two years ago.
The Gold PS4 Slim model is also limited edition that is out of circulation.
The White PS4 Pro Destiny 2 bundle is the only limited edition system that is currently widely available.

There have been other limited run consoles but most of them are either extremely limited in quantities available or ones that can only be obtained by winning
contests. (ie. Final Fantasy XV console, Dragon Quest Slime PS4, Gold original PS4, etc)
thl0103 wrote:
Oct 15th, 2017 7:38 pm
A bit off topic, but is the PS4 slim in glacier white no longer available? I’ve asked around Best Buy wal net eb games etc... they only have PS4 pro.
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Sr. Member
Nov 22, 2007
705 posts
29 upvotes
Thank you for the info. I guess I'd have to shell out for a pro model.
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Nov 28, 2011
651 posts
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Markham
Micelli_Illuminatti wrote:
Oct 8th, 2017 9:38 am
So, Sony announced that a PS5 will be released, but no actual release date given. PS4 Pro was released in fall of 2016. I was hoping to get some mileage out of my PS4 Pro for maybe another 3-4 years, before upgrading.

What do you folks think? Too soon for Sony to release PS5? Just the right time? Or not soon enough? Will you buy one? Personally, I'm still making my way through my PS3 backlog.
My guess is 2020-2021. And of course I will buy one, backlog or not :)
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Sep 26, 2007
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zod wrote:
Oct 13th, 2017 1:19 am
I think it's bad form to do another mid-life upgrade. If consoles need upgrades.... and it's going to become a thing... then make the ps5 and make it up-gradable.. so the next gen you don't have to buy a whole new console to get the upgrades.
making them modular other than hard drive would be null...history has proven few times it doesn't work...just get a PC if you want it 'upgradable'
Russell wrote:
Sep 10th, 2011 12:29 pm
We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

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Aug 20, 2009
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Grimsby
Modular consoles would be insanely expensive to produce and just aren't worth it. You would hit EOL on some parts inside of the unit before others and it would be a total warranty nightmare. Companies will not do that in the future unless they just go the full PC route. It's been attempted in the past and its been a huge bust every time.
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Mar 12, 2005
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Victoria
twitchyzero wrote:
Oct 19th, 2017 12:18 pm
making them modular other than hard drive would be null...history has proven few times it doesn't work...just get a PC if you want it 'upgradable'
My concern was more about the price of continually having to rebuy the whole thing every time they release a mid life console with a performance upgrade. Spitballing making it up-gradable was just a thought I had on keeping the costs down. Apparently it was a bad idea.

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