Parenting & Family

Locked: Punishment

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May 8, 2005
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CatDog wrote: Most if not all of her peers are there every day and perhaps come home once in a while, not the other way around.

If she enjoys coming home every day then she wouldn't have lied to stay at school.

Bottom line is you forcing her to come home is preventing her from building social skills.
I think you may be on to something there....good point.
" The placebo effect is the most powerful supplement of all "
" The pain of discipline weighs ounces, the pain of neglect weighs tons "
" The best training in the world can't overcome a lousy diet "
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CatDog wrote: Most if not all of her peers are there every day and perhaps come home once in a while, not the other way around.

If she enjoys coming home every day then she wouldn't have lied to stay at school.

Bottom line is you forcing her to come home is preventing her from building social skills.

Give me a break. Having her come home from school is not preventing her from building social skills. That is the most obsured thing I have heard of. :facepalm:
I guess allowing your kids dictate what they want is the way people parent now, but that is one major root to most problems with kids. Parents not willing to parent.

You need to read my post again. She was part of the Choir and to be part of the Choir requires her to stay at school for lunch to attend practice. What she lied about is attending Choir practice. She did attend previous practice sessions, but recently stopped.

Bottom line is that you have no clue and are completely off in your conclusion based on assumptions.

And this is why I refrain from posting things like this on the net. :|


And as for Poedua. You have little to no clue anyways (history has shown this), so there is no need to address your comments.
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D-Roc wrote: And as for Poedua. You have little to no clue anyways (history has shown this), so there is no need to address your comments.

Sure I do. :)

I was just expressing an opinion as a parent of 4 kids on ' kids and lying ' and WHY I think some 8 year old kids might lie to their parents - i.e. cause in most cases, kids lie for a reason...IMO.

And sometimes as a parent, when you run into undesirable behaviors like this, you have to be honest with yourself and at least ask the question as to whether some aspect of one's parenting style may have contributed in some small way ( if at all ) to an undesirable behavior occurring as it did. No parent is perfect. Parents makes mistakes. And hindsight is 20 / 20. As a parent, you learn from your mistakes. ;) Sometimes the undesirable behavior has nothing at all to do with the parents whatsoever. Sometimes it does - if only in a small way. But I think at least taking a moment to look in the mirror as a parent to see what role the parent may have played ( if at all ) in triggering this lying behavior is certainly worthwhile.
" The placebo effect is the most powerful supplement of all "
" The pain of discipline weighs ounces, the pain of neglect weighs tons "
" The best training in the world can't overcome a lousy diet "
TRAIN HARD !!!!
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D-Roc wrote: Not offended no, but I do not believe any book can help raise a child. It takes patience and understanding and it takes logic.
Just look at how some kids turn out, and it's obvious that their parents could have used some guidance other than patience/understanding/logic/instinct/whatever.
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Rehan wrote: Just look at how some kids turn out, and it's obvious that their parents could have used some guidance other than patience/understanding/logic/instinct/whatever.

You mean other " guidance " based on - for example - on something like religous principles ?
" The placebo effect is the most powerful supplement of all "
" The pain of discipline weighs ounces, the pain of neglect weighs tons "
" The best training in the world can't overcome a lousy diet "
TRAIN HARD !!!!
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Once again you offer up advice when it was never requested Peodua. I was asking for opinions on the punishment. Not looking to causes of the behaviour. I already know what caused the behaviour. If you can not answer the OP in direct regards to the question, then do not answer at all.
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poedua wrote: You mean other " guidance " based on - for example - on something like religous principles ?
No, I meant books or even parenting courses (non-religious ones).

(Our mosque does offer "practical parenting" workshops, but they're not based on any religious principles. Anyway, we're getting sidetracked here now...)
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Rehan wrote: No, I meant books or even parenting courses (non-religious ones).

(Our mosque does offer "practical parenting" workshops, but they're not based on any religious principles. Anyway, we're getting sidetracked here now...)
Fair enough.
" The placebo effect is the most powerful supplement of all "
" The pain of discipline weighs ounces, the pain of neglect weighs tons "
" The best training in the world can't overcome a lousy diet "
TRAIN HARD !!!!
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D-Roc wrote: Once again you offer up advice when it was never requested Peodua. I was asking for opinions on the punishment. Not looking to causes of the behaviour. I already know what caused the behaviour. If you can not answer the OP in direct regards to the question, then do not answer at all.

A punishment should also be a deterrent for the future. Your punishment seems appropriate for the crime here. Although, I believe it fails to address the cause of the incident.
This isn't a blog.
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jcon wrote: A punishment should also be a deterrent for the future. Your punishment seems appropriate for the crime here. Although, I believe it fails to address the cause of the incident.

The cause was already determined and discussed with her. We feel the not being able to stay at school for pizza lunch for the rest of the year and loosing her allowance for a month does address the behaviour. What I did forget is she has written a letter of apology to the Music Teacher.
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D-Roc wrote: The cause was already determined and discussed with her. We feel the not being able to stay at school for pizza lunch for the rest of the year and loosing her allowance for a month does address the behaviour. What I did forget is she has written a letter of apology to the Music Teacher.

And the last one is probably most important of all.
This isn't a blog.
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jcon wrote: And the last one is probably most important of all.

You are right. That was the first thing we decided on.
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Let me start by saying I read the entire thread, and I am a mom of a daughter. I think the situation is pretty simple - your daughter wanted to stay at school for lunch with her friends, which is completely understandable at her age, and when choir came up as a way to do so she decided to tell you she wanted to do it, when in reality it was a means to just stay at school. I do not ever condone lying, but I feel your punishments were excessive. She is 8 and just wants to stay at school for lunch and felt lying was a better alternative then speaking to you about it. You must ask yourself why this is - is it because you do not foster discussion? Are not willing to negotiate? Pizza days are once a month and special days for everyone. She wants regular time with her friends. What I would have done is discuss WHY she felt she needed to lie, discuss why it is important that when she commits to something she must follow it through, reassure her that she can come to you to discuss changes to her lunch schedule WITH you, and reconfirm that lying is never an acceptable solution. Then I would tell her she has to remain in choir for the rest of the year and reconfirm why she must continue this commitment, tell her I understood why she wanted to be with her friends during lunch and tell her she could do so two days a week plus pizza days. It's not just about punishment, it's about building trust and communication and making sure she knows that her opinions and feelings are heard, and although you might not always agree, you are always willing to hear her side. It's so important at this age to do so, so the foundation of trust - both ways - is there when she enters her teen years. I am not a parent who "gives in" or never punishes for bad behaviour, but I also raise my daughter with mutual respect and allow her to feel comfortable to talk to me about things. Sometimes I compromise, sometimes I hold firm, but I always allow her the opportunity to have her side heard. For punishment for lying, I would still give her allowance but for a month have her donate it all to the school choir, which she is a part of.

Yes you are the parent and have final say, but you must respect that an 8 year old must also be able to talk to you about things without feeling like she has to lie. Compromise does not mean you are not parenting, nor does it mean your child is walking all over you. It's forming a relationship that is ever evolving and you owe it to her to allow her the opportunity to express herself. Listening as a parent goes a long way, as does respect and compromise. Your list of punishments would perhaps be more appropriate for a younger child, but 8 going on 9 requires punishments that better reflect the message.
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Your punishments do nothing to address the issue with the exception of the note which is very appropriate and should not be seen as a punishment per say. And please stop referring to these things as crimes. It is disobedience at its best. Sorry just a little finicky about lying and kids being kids being seen as crimes...

Can't add much besides what else has been said and that is that there is a communication issue at hand.

Oh and your taking away her CP Penguin stuffed animals (whatever that is.) that she got with her own money should be reexamined. By giving her an allowance you give her money which becomes her own and she can save/spend it how she wishes on things she wants. You can't take away something she bought with her saved up allowances (which is her money because you gave it to her in an allowance) which shows great fiscal discipline because she saved for something she wanted.

Best of luck but not to sound like an a** **** but you could be setting yourself up for rebellion by keeping "a leash" on her.
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wrote:Best of luck but not to sound like an a** **** but you could be setting yourself up for rebellion by keeping "a leash" on her.
Quoted for emphasis. Grade 9 wasn't that long ago for me, parents like you are in for a real shock.
wrote:The cause was already determined and discussed with her. We feel the not being able to stay at school for pizza lunch for the rest of the year
What's the cause? The root problem to the majority of us is that you're separating her and her friends during lunch. Just so I understand your parenting clearly... your daughter lies because she wants to be with her friends which is a reasonable expectation of an 8 year old during lunch, which your solution to her lying is by taking her away from her friends more than she already is?
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dibksbgon wrote: Oh and your taking away her CP Penguin stuffed animals (whatever that is.) that she got with her own money should be reexamined. By giving her an allowance you give her money which becomes her own and she can save/spend it how she wishes on things she wants. You can't take away something she bought with her saved up allowances (which is her money because you gave it to her in an allowance) which shows great fiscal discipline because she saved for something she wanted.
Club Penguin is a website. I think he's just not allowing her to visit the website, as part of the punishment. Doesn't have anything to do with what she spent her own money on.
D-Roc wrote: We take lying in our household very seriously. She has always known this.
Think about it this way: she knows that lying is serious business, and still she chose to lie several times. So either staying for lunch is really, really important to her or she doesn't take lying nearly as seriously as you think she does. If you don't resolve the root cause, the only thing she will learn is to get better at not being caught.
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First the term crime is a figure of speech.

Second. She does not have a "leash" on her. If that is what you think just based on the fact she comes home for lunch, well then you are sadly mistaken. We are pretty free with many things.

Third. We talked to her about Choir. Now Choir, by this time, had been going on all year. She had ample opportunity to join and we even asked and encouraged her to try it out. She does not have too many interests even though we have encouraged and supported when ever she did show an interest in something. Soccer, dance, to name a couple. And we always let her decide if she wanted to continue. She came home saying there was an announcement that Choir needed more members and she wanted to give it a try. Of course we supported it even if part of it was to stay at school for lunch. We would have told her that she must stay in Choir, but Choir is over after this coming Monday's event which she can not, and rightfully so, attend as she does not know the song.

Pizza Fri is not a special treat for every kid. Some kids are there every day and get pizza each week and really I do not care about the other kids. I care about my daughter. We live close and want her home for lunch.

We have had several conversations with her and while I respect your comments, you should not assume we have not had any discussions about why, etc. We have. I just did not feel the need to post them in detail here as I was only asking about the punishment.

My wife and I are happy with the punishment, feel it is appropriate and is getting the message across.
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CatDog wrote: Quoted for emphasis. Grade 9 wasn't that long ago for me, parents like you are in for a real shock.



What's the cause? The root problem to the majority of us is that you're separating her and her friends during lunch. Just so I understand your parenting clearly... your daughter lies because she wants to be with her friends which is a reasonable expectation of an 8 year old during lunch, which your solution to her lying is by taking her away from her friends more than she already is?

See above. We are not in for a shock. We are not your parents.
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Think about it... eight your old girl and she's already lying to her parents
(she's not even a teenager yet !!!)

I agree with everyone else
Think about WHY she skipped choir practice

Think about WHY she felt the need to LIE to her parents

Possible or obvious answer is that she is SCARED of her parents
and scared of her parents' reaction if she spoke the truth



Yep- it's much easier to lie to your parents than to get yelled at
or PUNISHED
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http://youtu.be/rYmk2jJZGdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHgrrA1ERgo
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Rehan wrote:
Think about it this way: she knows that lying is serious business, and still she chose to lie several times. So either staying for lunch is really, really important to her or she doesn't take lying nearly as seriously as you think she does. If you don't resolve the root cause, the only thing she will learn is to get better at not being caught.


We were considering taking away the stuffed animals, but we did not.


As for lying. Every kid knows lying is serious (as long as the parents take it seriously). Kids just naturally like to test to see what they can get away with. Just like a teen or a pre-teen. They know the rules. They know what is expected. They know it all, but they still go against the rules. Why? They like see what they can get away with. Sometimes it may be because of restrictive parents, but not all the time and we are far from being that restrictive or ridged.

We have also come to accept that she will lie and get away with it at times down the road. We have all lied to our parents to get away with stuff.

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