Red Light Ticket

[Da Grape]

I am due to attend court for this offense.

Couple of months ago, I was driving up (North) Don Mills approaching Finch. As I was approaching the intersection to make a right (East), I slowed down and as I approach the intersection, the light turned red. I made the right turn and as I completed the turn, i saw a flash (red light camera which I didn't notice in the beginning).

Couple of weeks after that I receive my letter stating my offense and that I have to pay $180. I decided to drive up to the area and check what signs I missed. There was just a red light sign as I approach the same intersection the same way.

I'm sure I don't know all the traffic do's and dont's but, what is the rule against turning a right on a red on a red light camera intersection? There was no sign saying you cannot make a red. As I slowed down at the intersection, there were nobody crossing or at the intersection so i continued to make the right.

Do i have any case?

Any help/advice is appreciated.

[Shaner]

You have to come to a COMPLETE stop at red lights. If you are turning right, you can proceed only once you've come to a complete stop.

I don't know what kind of signs you could possibly be looking for. There was a red light, that's more than enough.

If you don't know that simple rule of the road, then perhaps you shouldn't be driving.

[Da Grape]

Shaner,

Thanks for the reply.

I was approaching the intersection to make a right, it turned orange as i slowed down by the intersection. The light turned red as I cross the intersection making a right. I understand you stop on red but as I approach from speeds of 50+ slowing down to 25 as i reach the intersection, I personally don't think it was safe to do a complete stop and not cross the intersection.

Again, I was driving North on Don Mills, light was green. As i approach the intersection lowering my speed it turned orange, before I enter the intersection it was still orange then turned red as I start to cross.

Perhaps my initial post was not clear (probably wasn't), for this I apologize and I hope this reply explains the scenario better.

[ES_Revenge]

I'm sure I don't know all the traffic do's and dont's but

Good thing you have a license and are driving around the streets then eh?

[nano]

that ticket is similar to a parking ticket if you pay it you don't lose points and your insurance rates wont be effected...

[mmmken]

This is what happened to me, and it's absolutely stupid (if you indeed made a complete stop before turning right). If it were yellow, you would be able to turn right if there was no immediate danger (provided you crossed the line when it was yellow, and not red).

The section in the HTA that your case will deal with is 144 (18), which is the red light rule. There is an exception to that section, which is 144 (19) - which is essentially a right turn is allowed. If you believe the light was yellow, try looking at 144 (15) - which deals with yellow lights.

For my case, I'm absolutely sure that I made a complete stop before the turn - with all evidence presented - and proved that the cop was lying. Regardless of my innocence and strong case, I lost my case because the judge decided to rule in the Crown's favour. I am filing for an appeal though.

Links that you'll be interested in:

• HTA Section 144: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...08_e.htm#BK212
• Tips on going to Court: http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/

I'm 19, and I decided to skip a lawyer/paralegal, and represented myself. I'm sure you'll handle well yourself - don't cave into the Crown's plea bargains if you believe you didn't do anything wrong. Any moving conviction will raise your insurance, regardless of the points received. I'll be glad to help you out.

I am due to attend court for this offense.

Couple of months ago, I was driving up (North) Don Mills approaching Finch. As I was approaching the intersection to make a right (East), I slowed down and as I approach the intersection, the light turned red. I made the right turn and as I completed the turn, i saw a flash (red light camera which I didn't notice in the beginning).

Couple of weeks after that I receive my letter stating my offense and that I have to pay $180. I decided to drive up to the area and check what signs I missed. There was just a red light sign as I approach the same intersection the same way.

I'm sure I don't know all the traffic do's and dont's but, what is the rule against turning a right on a red on a red light camera intersection? There was no sign saying you cannot make a red. As I slowed down at the intersection, there were nobody crossing or at the intersection so i continued to make the right.

Do i have any case?

Any help/advice is appreciated.

[mmmken]

that ticket is similar to a parking ticket if you pay it you don't lose points and your insurance rates wont be effected...

Didn't notice that it was a red light camera. You're absolutely correct. They have no way to determine the driver of the car - and thus will not affect your premiums. Good catch!

[Dibble]

I was approaching the intersection to make a right, it turned orange as i slowed down by the intersection. The light turned red as I cross the intersection making a right. I understand you stop on red but as I approach from speeds of 50+ slowing down to 25 as i reach the intersection, I personally don't think it was safe to do a complete stop and not cross the intersection.

The average yellow light duration is approximately 4 seconds adjusted accordingly for varying max traffic speeds -- obviously an 80km/hr max speed road will have longer yellow's than a 40km/hr road.

Either the particular traffic lights you ran a red on have illegally adjusted their yellow light duration -- i.e. shorter -- to increase municipal revenues, or you simply had a very poor sense of timing. Assuming the traffic lights are normal and the yellow light duration is not shortened, you should have had ample time to react, slow down, and safely arrive at a complete stop with some room to spare. If you couldn't, you either are not fit to drive or your car has poor breaks -- either of which is simply your fault.

Your argument for the safe complete stop won't fly for the reason I've mentioned above. The only reason why it won't be safe for you to stop is a) not enough distance to safely stop or b) there is a car very close behind you. If it's a), assuming the traffic lights are up to par and weather was clear, you have no case. If it was b), it would be a much better option to be rear-ended at 25km/hr than pass through a red -- for which, you may either harm innocent people or you may end up in an even more severe accident.

The only thing that WILL FLY, is if you actually did manage to cross the entire car over the line while the light was yellow.

[nano]

fyi..... you go through the yellow when its not safe to stop not because you have 4 seconds before its red. If you are going to make a right you should already be slowing down.

[rfdrfd]

From what I remember from learning how to drive a LONG time ago, isn't the rule you have to stop at a red light for 3 seconds before you can turn right (when allowed) ?

[Shaner]

The rule is complete stop. Many people recommend 2 seconds just to be safe, but the actual rule is a complete stop.

As for the OP, you really need to get your story straight. In your first post you stated as you approached the intersection, the light turned red and you made your turn anyway.

Then in your next post, you claim you didn't have enough time to come to a complete stop, so you ran through the yellow. That is next to impossible though, unless you took the corner at 40-50 km/hr. If you were making a right turn, you would have been slowing down well before the intersection, and you would have had more than enough time to come to a complete stop.

I personally think your story doesn't add up; however, it is your story and you're entitled to it. So at this point, you can either pay it and suffer no consequences other than a slightly lighter wallet, or fight it. If you decide to fight it, I would come up with a better story than you couldn't stop safely, even though you were turning right.

[Da Grape]

From what I remember from learning how to drive a LONG time ago, isn't the rule you have to stop at a red light for 3 seconds before you can turn right (when allowed) ?

I didn't approach on a red light, it was orange and right before i crossed the intersection to make the right, turned red on me. (I am at the intersection to cross at speeds of around 25. I wasn't approaching anymore, I was there already.)

I'm going through my recollection of what happened couple of months ago, my apologies if im not explaining it properly. As shaner pointed out, I'll need to do a better job recollecting my story and telling my case at court.

Mmmken, thanks for the reply and I'll be checking the links.

[GangStarr]

The OP doesn't seem to know what traffic laws are... nor what colours are.

Its amber/yellow not orange. You will sound like an idiot if you walk into court talking about orange lights.

OP you were cuaght on camera, and you should be thankful that you were since if an officer issued you the ticket, it would affect your insurance.

You have 2 options

1) Pay it... and move on
2) Waste the courts time with your story and you will probably get it reduced.

[thelefteyeguy]

I didn't approach on a red light, it was orange and right before i crossed the intersection to make the right, turned red on me. (I am at the intersection to cross at speeds of around 25. I wasn't approaching anymore, I was there already.)

I'm going through my recollection of what happened couple of months ago, my apologies if im not explaining it properly. As shaner pointed out, I'll need to do a better job recollecting my story and telling my case at court.

Mmmken, thanks for the reply and I'll be checking the links.

the photo will dispute otherwise. My advise is to look at the photo.

^^+1...it's amber...not orange

[kmltick]

I remember reading somewhere (or someone telling me) that the cameras activate after a certain period of time AFTER the red light has changed. i.e. 1/2-1 complete second.