Automotive

Removing lock washer

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  • Dec 9th, 2018 12:27 am
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Removing lock washer

Hi,

I'm looking for suggestions on how to remove lock washers that are holding my inner tie rods in the steering rack. For 2002 CRV they need to be unbent as shown in the picture but the washers are quite sturdy and hammering a screwdriver into the flange didn't seem to move anything. The space is quite tight and not sure if I can wiggle a pair of pliers in there. Anybody got suggestions on how to get around this problem?

Thanks
20181204_222607rfd.jpg
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Service manual says to remove the steering rack. Which is no wonder, because you need a chisel, hammer and a good swing to bend those locking tabs away.

Do the inner tie rods actually need replacing? Do they have free-play?

Maybe you can find a 3 foot chisel and hammer it from the wheel well...
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derass wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 5:42 pm
Service manual says to remove the steering rack. Which is no wonder, because you need a chisel, hammer and a good swing to bend those locking tabs away.

Do the inner tie rods actually need replacing? Do they have free-play?

Maybe you can find a 3 foot chisel and hammer it from the wheel well...
There's no free play when I pull/push the rod, but the joint is very loose (ie. when I lift and drop it, it's free fall). I suspect it's the OEM.

I know service manual says to remove steering rack, but I've found a few forums where people have done the job going over/under the hood. They make no mention of how they bent the locking tabs though.

The reason for replacement is the car was clunking more and more often when turning and going over bumps. I've replaced ball joints, control arms, and outer tie rods on both sides, so I was hoping to complete the job by replacing the inners too. I will likely abort this mission and see if the clunking goes away and take the car to a mechanic if it doesn't.
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blahraptors wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 6:54 pm
There's no free play when I pull/push the rod, but the joint is very loose (ie. when I lift and drop it, it's free fall).
What do mean by this? There is free-play up and down? Lift and drop what? The car?
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Any access if it were to be on a lift
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derass wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 7:18 pm
What do mean by this? There is free-play up and down? Lift and drop what? The car?
With the tie rod detached from the steering knuckle, there is no resistance when I hold the loose end and move it around, ie. when I lift up the rod and let it go, it drops straight down.
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6mthatch wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 7:28 pm
Any access if it were to be on a lift
There's a heat shield held by four (rusty) bolts under the rack. If I remove it I can probably fit a pair of pliers, but I'm not sure if that provides enough force to unbend the locking tabs.
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blahraptors wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 7:31 pm
With the tie rod detached from the steering knuckle, there is no resistance when I hold the loose end and move it around, ie. when I lift up the rod and let it go, it drops straight down.
Oh, I see. I would agree that it's no longer in new condition. But without free-play, it's not worn out either. It's somewhere in between. Probably not the source of any noises.

If you're chasing clunking noises, it's probably rubber bushings like the strut mounts, and control arm bushings.
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derass wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 8:51 pm
Oh, I see. I would agree that it's no longer in new condition. But without free-play, it's not worn out either. It's somewhere in between. Probably not the source of any noises.

If you're chasing clunking noises, it's probably rubber bushings like the strut mounts, and control arm bushings.
I'd look at the stabilizer link and bushings. Is the clunking mainly in the front? On the CRV, the rear bushings usually wear out and make noise. There's also a differential dampener at the back if the car is AWD, and may a source of noise there too.
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derass wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 8:51 pm
Oh, I see. I would agree that it's no longer in new condition. But without free-play, it's not worn out either. It's somewhere in between. Probably not the source of any noises.

If you're chasing clunking noises, it's probably rubber bushings like the strut mounts, and control arm bushings.
Could be the control arm, which I have already replaced. I don't think the inner tie rods are the source either, but thought I'd change them out since I was taking things apart anyway and will need realignment.
someone16 wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 10:08 pm
I'd look at the stabilizer link and bushings. Is the clunking mainly in the front? On the CRV, the rear bushings usually wear out and make noise. There's also a differential dampener at the back if the car is AWD, and may a source of noise there too.
Clunk seems to be from the front. I'm quite certain it's the control arm bushing. I had another CRV with bad rear bushings that made noise only when going over a bump, but this one is mainly when turning.

I'm very puzzled as to why Honda made changing the inner tie rods so difficult. The length of them make it impossible to use a tie rod tool, and they just had to choose a lock washer design that's also near impossible to remove in-car...
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Yeah, bad design for a steering rack. The 1st gen CR-V has a traditional steering rack, same with the 3rd gen. But for whatever reason, Honda tried this strange steering rack on the 2nd gen CR-V, 7th gen Civic, and Acura RSX.

Speaking of which, maybe this will help. This fellow managed to swap the inner tie rods on his 7th gen Civic with the rack still in the car. Didn't even bother to un-bend the lock washers. Just forced the tie rods off with a pipe wrench.

https://hondakarma.com/guides/replacing ... -car.1859/
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derass wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 11:01 pm
Yeah, bad design for a steering rack. The 1st gen CR-V has a traditional steering rack, same with the 3rd gen. But for whatever reason, Honda tried this strange steering rack on the 2nd gen CR-V, 7th gen Civic, and Acura RSX.

Speaking of which, maybe this will help. This fellow managed to swap the inner tie rods on his 7th gen Civic with the rack still in the car. Didn't even bother to un-bend the lock washers. Just forced the tie rods off with a pipe wrench.

https://hondakarma.com/guides/replacing ... -car.1859/
Thanks for finding this! I think it's worth a shot. Kinda worried about wrecking the rack with the washers still on though Smiling Face With Sunglasses
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blahraptors wrote:
Dec 5th, 2018 11:45 pm
Thanks for finding this! I think it's worth a shot. Kinda worried about wrecking the rack with the washers still on though Smiling Face With Sunglasses
You won't wreck the rack. Done it many many times just take the inner tie rod off and the washer will flatten itself.
Also your inner tie rods haven't failed yet but will fail soon. First step is they can't hold themselves up and just drop, second step is they develop play. There is enough play that they don't hold themselves up but it's not really measurable yet.

While your clunking is not coming from the inner tie rods, that should be changed. I would look at the stabilizer links from the description.
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I just realized: those inner tie rods are like 2 feet long each. Add 1lb at their very end in the form of an outer tie rod, and I don't think it's likely they they can even hold themselves up even new. That's a lot of leverage.
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derass wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 3:24 pm
I just realized: those inner tie rods are like 2 feet long each. Add 1lb at their very end in the form of an outer tie rod, and I don't think it's likely they they can even hold themselves up even new. That's a lot of leverage.
You obviously haven't changed them before. Stop giving bad advice.
Every inner tie rod is 1ft+ and then have an outer tie rod (some weight more than 1lb).
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