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Replacement windows - insert type or full frame?

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  • Jun 4th, 2017 12:40 am
Newbie
Mar 28, 2017
44 posts
21 upvotes

Replacement windows - insert type or full frame?

Looking at replacing two picture windows with windows that open before the summer. It's quite a bit cheaper for labour to get insert windows because they leave the old frame (aluminum in my case) in place. Anyone have experience with this? Is the long term durability and weatherproofing just as good for an insert window verses a full frame replacement window? I know I'll lose a little glass area, but these are big windows so no big deal.
Thanks
20 replies
Deal Expert
User avatar
May 10, 2005
36997 posts
11419 upvotes
Ottawa
It depends on the look you want to achieve. An insert window has less glass area. In insert window has sometimes a 3 or 4 inch wide frame that sits in the window opening. Looks bad in my opinion.
We chose full frame because we wanted as much light and therefore most glass.
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
Deal Addict
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Jun 12, 2008
3759 posts
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Ancaster
Pete_Coach wrote: It depends on the look you want to achieve. An insert window has less glass area. In insert window has sometimes a 3 or 4 inch wide frame that sits in the window opening. Looks bad in my opinion.
We chose full frame because we wanted as much light and therefore most glass.
With Pete_Coach......the big thick frames just don't look as nice.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
7861 upvotes
Paris
The insulation around your windows is what it s with inserts (and it's probably crap). Full frame is always the preferable way to go.
Deal Addict
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Aug 5, 2003
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North York
nielboy wrote: With Pete_Coach......the big thick frames just don't look as nice.
+2
Deal Fanatic
Aug 29, 2011
9926 posts
7090 upvotes
Mississauga
On top of aesthetics, inserts don't addrees any potential jamb issues (rot, inadequate insulation, etc.)

Yes, doing full frame (aka brick-to-brick) is more money but you start with a clean slate.
Deal Fanatic
Jun 26, 2009
5429 posts
5285 upvotes
GTA
nielboy wrote: With Pete_Coach......the big thick frames just don't look as nice.
Pete Coach is talking about "brick to brick" install. There is no "nicer " way than this type of installation.
Deal Fanatic
Jan 15, 2004
7631 posts
2175 upvotes
Obviously this comes down to budget. If you have money, go for brick to brick. I know someone done insert windows and the frame is so big and the glass is tiny.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
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Paris
golden wrote: Obviously this comes down to budget. If you have money, go for brick to brick. I know someone done insert windows and the frame is so big and the glass is tiny.
Not just short term budget though... if the insulation under your trim is shoddy then it will remain shoddy and the edges of your windows will be colder. Also with inserts they ar caulked on the outside and you WILL need to re-caulk them in 5-10 years time depending on window exposure.

And outside of all that, they are never sealed in there as well as full frame.
Newbie
Mar 28, 2017
44 posts
21 upvotes
Thanks for the replies everyone. After getting some quotes for the two windows, inserts are $1200 and full frame are $2050. Seems like a big difference when I'm not too worried about the drawbacks of inserts. There is no existing obvious damage around the jambs. I've also done renos on other areas of the house and have never seen any rot around other windows (or anywhere else). The windows are pretty big at 48" x 56" so not worried about losing a little glass area. Going for the Milgard Styleline which have a thinner frame. Also the top of the window is only 6" below the eaves, so no worries about water intrusion there. Forgot to mention I live on the west coast, so not as worried about cold air drafts.
The hardest part was finding someone to do the work, everyone seems to have a 2-3 month wait. A company with good reviews has said they can sneak me in as it's a small job.
Newbie
Jul 16, 2011
72 posts
15 upvotes
Ottawa
+1 on full frame to do re-flashing(or any flashing) if needed. But I see you are confident your flashing/structure is fine as are your siding trimmings. (it's a rare occurrence that windows are properly flashed/installed by builders)
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12695 posts
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Paris
OP:Hey guys what is your opinion?
RFD: universally this
OP: I am going to do the other thing
Newbie
Mar 28, 2017
44 posts
21 upvotes
Jerico wrote: OP:Hey guys what is your opinion?
RFD: universally this
OP: I am going to do the other thing
This just shows your own ignorance. Many reasons why the insert is better for me. For one, IMO it would be crazy to pay almost double the price for an only marginally more durable solution. When it's your money, you can make the decision. Do you feel the discussion had no value because I went against the RFD consensus? I certainly didn't make my decision based only on RFD feedback and I would hope all posters on RFD are more than just people.
Deal Fanatic
Aug 29, 2011
9926 posts
7090 upvotes
Mississauga
How is full-frame replacement "only marginally more durable"?

I would agree that if you don't intend to stay in the home for too long, don't spend a ton of money in windows because you'll never recoup that cost when you sell.
Deal Expert
User avatar
May 10, 2005
36997 posts
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Ottawa
islandscott wrote: This just shows your own ignorance. Many reasons why the insert is better for me. For one, IMO it would be crazy to pay almost double the price for an only marginally more durable solution. When it's your money, you can make the decision. Do you feel the discussion had no value because I went against the RFD consensus? I certainly didn't make my decision based only on RFD feedback and I would hope all posters on RFD are more than just people.
I suggest to you that you were the one that asked the question here on RFD and that the people here responded with their personal experience.
While RFD is a "deal" website, people here are also intelligent and realize when it comes to saving money and best value, best value often makes more sense.
You get what you pay for. If you want your house to look like it has window plugs, that is your choice and I am sure you will be happy.
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2014
3097 posts
474 upvotes
Oshawa, ON
islandscott wrote: This just shows your own ignorance. Many reasons why the insert is better for me. For one, IMO it would be crazy to pay almost double the price for an only marginally more durable solution. When it's your money, you can make the decision. Do you feel the discussion had no value because I went against the RFD consensus? I certainly didn't make my decision based only on RFD feedback and I would hope all posters on RFD are more than just people.
Overheard at the open house some time in the future when you are selling:
"Sigh, they put in inserts. I wonder what else is wrong around here, they really must not have taken care of this house."
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Newbie
Mar 28, 2017
44 posts
21 upvotes
mrweather wrote: How is full-frame replacement "only marginally more durable"?

I would agree that if you don't intend to stay in the home for too long, don't spend a ton of money in windows because you'll never recoup that cost when you sell.
How is it not? Genuine question. The windows themselves seem to be manufactured to the same standards. Caulking is the only durability parameter I can see here. I'm less concerned about it because with the window only 6" from the eves there is no water that ever hits the house above the window.
Newbie
Mar 28, 2017
44 posts
21 upvotes
Pete_Coach wrote: I suggest to you that you were the one that asked the question here on RFD and that the people here responded with their personal experience.
While RFD is a "deal" website, people here are also intelligent and realize when it comes to saving money and best value, best value often makes more sense.
You get what you pay for. If you want your house to look like it has window plugs, that is your choice and I am sure you will be happy.
That was my point, that people on RFD are generally intelligent. I am grateful for the feed back and said so earlier. The post I replied to was shaming for not following the crowd advice which is silly. I obviously did not post every single detail of the decision process.

Not sure they will look like windows plugs. The outside window trim is vinyl j trim for the siding. I think it will match the aesthetic quite nicely.
Deal Guru
User avatar
May 13, 2004
11471 posts
559 upvotes
Toronto
What company did you find?
islandscott wrote: Thanks for the replies everyone. After getting some quotes for the two windows, inserts are $1200 and full frame are $2050. Seems like a big difference when I'm not too worried about the drawbacks of inserts. There is no existing obvious damage around the jambs. I've also done renos on other areas of the house and have never seen any rot around other windows (or anywhere else). The windows are pretty big at 48" x 56" so not worried about losing a little glass area. Going for the Milgard Styleline which have a thinner frame. Also the top of the window is only 6" below the eaves, so no worries about water intrusion there. Forgot to mention I live on the west coast, so not as worried about cold air drafts.
The hardest part was finding someone to do the work, everyone seems to have a 2-3 month wait. A company with good reviews has said they can sneak me in as it's a small job.
Newbie
Mar 28, 2017
44 posts
21 upvotes
eldeejay wrote: Overheard at the open house some time in the future when you are selling:
"Sigh, they put in inserts. I wonder what else is wrong around here, they really must not have taken care of this house."
I'll likely be too dead to overhear this conversation. :) If not, hopefully the housing market is as hot as it's been for the last couple years and it sells for 100k over asking with no conditions.

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