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Replacing/fixing existing MR16 pot lights. How?

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Mar 23, 2009
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Replacing/fixing existing MR16 pot lights. How?

There is a row of pot lights over my kitchen bar counter that is driving me nuts. The lights just turn off from time to time. At first I thought it was the dimmer and so I replaced it with a regular switch and still have the same problem.

So, I unhooked the trip and jiggled the attachment to the bulbs, and they come on again... only sometimes to go back off again after some time. Jiggling the attachments makes it go on again. At first it was just one. Then it was two. Now it's three of the five. They're about a dozen years old I think and are the Juno TC44. Here is the PDF of the product, but I note it's from 2008. Mine are probably nearly a decade older, despite having the same name.

I'm wondering if the pot lights are just defective, specifically the MR16 sockets. I'm thinking that to remove and replace these pot light housings would be a major PITA, because I think they are mounted to the framing. However, the wiring seems to be fixed. I can't just somehow undo it and replace to wires, can I? I think I'd have to cut the wires to put on a new MR16 mount. Is that something people actually do? Or might we expect the problem to be with the transformer? I'm thinking not because if it were, I don't think jiggling the attachment to the bulb would do anything. Or is it common to have a problem somewhere in between the socket and the transformer?

Light:

[IMG]http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24 ... ousing.jpg[/IMG]

MR16 bulb and socket:

[IMG]http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24 ... Socket.jpg[/IMG]

Socket wiring:

[IMG]http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24 ... /Wires.jpg[/IMG]

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P.S. I was hoping it was just the dimmer, but like I said, no dice. For a different light in the house, replacing the old dimmer with a new one reduced the frequency of the light randomly turning on and off. However it still happened fairly often. Replacing the dimmer completely with a regular switch eliminated the problem. I suspect that it was because there was already another dimmer for another set of lights there. Dimmer crosstalk.
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Interesting. Those sockets go for just a few bux for lots of 5 on eBay, and maybe are about a buck apiece at online electronics stores.

Image
Newbie
Jan 7, 2008
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Brampton
Sometimes the bulb contacts get corroded/oxidized so the light makes an intermittent contact. Try pulling out the bulb, and use a nail file on the contacts so that you can see shiny metal. This usually works for most of my problem lights/sockets.
In an extreme case if the socket is damaged, you can replace the socket like the one you identified on ebay. I just had to replace one of mine that was broken with an ebay one, and so far so good.
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I'm thinking it's the socket, because this happens even with new bulbs. So, for new sockets it possible to use wire nuts inside the housing? Or just splicing the wires and then electrical tape?
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I have noticed with those lights that the sockets do get damaged, especially with the intense halogen heat it has to endure. Replace the sockets and replace the halogens with LED replacements. That is what I did. It was not all that expensive. (comparability speaking) The amount of hydro used is dramatically lower with the LED's compared to the halo's.
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willdacanucker wrote: I have noticed with those lights that the sockets do get damaged, especially with the intense halogen heat it has to endure. Replace the sockets and replace the halogens with LED replacements. That is what I did. It was not all that expensive. (comparability speaking) The amount of hydro used is dramatically lower with the LED's compared to the halo's.
Where did you buy your replacement LED's and are they dim able?

I have had the same issue with the heads dying and have bought replacements and done just what you described by splicing the new one onto the wire and either using marettes or tape and puttingthem back up. My problem happened only 6 years into the life of the housing though. I looked a whiel back fo rreplacement leds but couldnt find anything with comparable light output and gave up... should look again, cuz the leds would use WAY less hydro....
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jrross wrote: Where did you buy your replacement LED's and are they dim able?

I have had the same issue with the heads dying and have bought replacements and done just what you described by splicing the new one onto the wire and either using marettes or tape and puttingthem back up. My problem happened only 6 years into the life of the housing though. I looked a whiel back fo rreplacement leds but couldnt find anything with comparable light output and gave up... should look again, cuz the leds would use WAY less hydro....
They are dimmable. I bought them from some website that I don't have time to search for atm. I will update this when I get home and get the bookmarks.
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willdacanucker wrote: I have noticed with those lights that the sockets do get damaged, especially with the intense halogen heat it has to endure.
Very true. In my experience these sockets tend to be quite troublesome, particularly the way the pins have to be pushed in. I've had the bulb contacts along with the bulb get pushed into the bulb housing before the pins even went in halfway, and any misalignment of the pins or socket contacts will lead to flickering or no power. The GU10 versions get rid of this problem, which makes sense for halogen bulbs since you'll be replacing them often, but if you go with LEDS this is less of an issue seeing as you'll be replacing them infrequently.
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willdacanucker wrote: They are dimmable. I bought them from some website that I don't have time to search for atm. I will update this when I get home and get the bookmarks.
k thanks....
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I assume the sockets have no electronics in there. ie. They're just leads, right? If so, I'm almost tempted to solder wires to the leads of the bulb for now, and then splice those wires to the existing (low voltage) wires, until my new sockets arrive. Cuz right now 2 or 3 of the lights don't give me any light at all at any one time. I figure that's better than constant flickering and arcing.
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Well, I cut off one of the sockets, and attached the bulb directly to the remaining wires. Worked fine.

So, as an interim solution until my new sockets arrive, I tried soldering some wires directly to the bulb, to splice onto the existing wires. No joy. :( For some reason the solder simply wouldn't stick to the pins on the bulb. Dunno why. Oxidation and grunge? I guess I'll just have to wait until the new sockets arrive. In the meantime I just capped off the old wires and put them back.

BTW, when I attach the new sockets, do I need special high temperature wire nuts? I note that on Ideal's site, their regular thermoplastic wire nuts are rated to 105C, but their high temp ones are rated to 150C. Does that matter? Or do I need the $$$ ceramic ones? Or I suppose I can just twist the wires together and then solder and tape them, but I'd rather use wire nuts if possible.

I see Nedco sells them for $12 here.
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So I got 5 sockets delivered to me from Asia in a week and a half, for five bucks. Not bad. They look like this:

Image

I bought the black 150°C-rated Thomas & Betts "31" Marrettes from Rona for another five bucks. (The regular ones are only 105°C rated, and aren't meant for light fixtures.) I didn't bother with the ceramic ones, which are rated to 645°C.

Image

Now all my lights work perfectly, with no flickering. Excellent.
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Mar 6, 2006
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it was helpful to learn your experience, thanked
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The remaining sockets on this group of potlights are dying now. But also, some of the replacement eBay sockets are dying as well.

I bought two batches of sockets, and they have different colours for the wires, so I can tell them apart. One batch of the sockets is also dying, after 2 years.

So, I'm replacing both the originals, and some of the replacement sockets now.

In the meantime I'm replacing the 50 W bulbs with 35 W, since I don't need that much light there anyway, and I'll go looking for dimmable LEDs. It may mean having to replace the dimmer though. Plus, I don't know how the wiring is, and if there are multiple dimmers sharing the same neutral.
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Do these Luminus MR16 LEDs at Costco work with traditional dimmers?

http://www.costco.ca/Luminus%C2%AE-LED- ... 83224.html

They're $12 apiece so kind of expensive to replace all my working MR16 bulbs in one shot (since I have a LOT of them), but I'm thinking I can gradually replace them as they burn out, but only if the LEDs work with traditional dimmers. I don't feel like replacing all my dimmers too.
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Nobody here has used those Luminus pot lights?

If not, I may just have to buy one to test.
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Mar 1, 2003
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I have used the Luminous GU10 ones from costsco and I was looking for MR16 versions. Honestly the GU10 version is fantastic! Excellent colour and light output. I cant vouch for the dimming because I only used them in a non dimming application. However I am going to pick up some of these MR16's and give it a try. Based on my experience with the GU10 versions I think you will be happy.
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You will need 6W or 7W LED to replace 50W halogens. Otherwise it will feel dimmer.
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EugW wrote: In the meantime I'm replacing the 50 W bulbs with 35 W, since I don't need that much light there anyway, and I'll go looking for dimmable LEDs. It may mean having to replace the dimmer though. Plus, I don't know how the wiring is, and if there are multiple dimmers sharing the same neutral.
kalekainxx wrote: You will need 6W or 7W LED to replace 50W halogens. Otherwise it will feel dimmer.
My dimmer started to die, so I replaced it with a LED compatible dimmer. However, all my bulbs are still halogen. I like the continuous dimming possible with halogen, but I don't actually need 35 W. I noticed that 200 lumen (~20 W equivalent) LEDs from Ikea actually put out sufficient light for this purpose, and I'm even using these 200 lumen LEDs in potlights for two hallways. Not super bright, but good enough for this purpose, esp. since my walls are not dark.

Thus, I'm thinking I can replace my breakfast bar's MR16s with dimmable 200 lumen (20 W equivalent) or 350 lumen (35 W equivalent) GU5.3 MR16s, esp. since I now have an LED-compatible dimmer. I just need to find some decent dimmable LEDs on sale again somewhere. (The Ikea 200 lumen MR16s aren't dimmable.) The other issue is the minimum dimming. I like to have the lights at well under 20% sometimes, but I'm not sure how well that works with LED. I guess I'll just have to try it an see, but I don't want to pay double-digit $ for a dimmable LED just for an experiment.

I know it's a huge problem with CFL though. Dimmable CFLs IMO suck. The light looks sickly when dimmed, and you can't go below about 40%, so it's moot anyway.

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tl;dr: Who sells good quality and inexpensive DIMMABLE 12V GU5.3 MR16 bulbs? How well do they work in terms of minimum light output, and reliability?

What about line voltage GU10s, and line voltage MR16s with E26 bases?
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Apr 8, 2010
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LED will not work with your average run of the mill dimmers. you'll need to replace those as well. the link you provided gives me out of stock but if you read the packaging, it will usually say whether it's dimmable or not.

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